Bro Saeed Purcell: The Muslim Highlander
Brother Saeed Purcell: The Muslim Highlander
In this episode of the American Muslim Podcast, host Iman Tariq El-Amin sits down with Brother Saeed Purcell, an esteemed educator and convert with over 30 years of experience in Islamic teaching and leadership. The conversation delves deep into Brother Saeed's spiritual journey, from his Christian upbringing through various faith explorations to ultimately embracing Islam. Brother Saeed shares the challenges and growth he experienced along the way, including his battles with personal and professional obstacles, and his continuous strive for knowledge and self-improvement. The episode also touches on the impact of cultural influences, the significance of genuine Dawa, and the importance of personal authenticity in leadership. Alongside discussing his latest projects and social media presence, Brother Saeed offers valuable insights into the transformative power of faith and perseverance.
00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message
00:51 Introducing Brother Saeed Purcell
01:26 Brother Saeed's Journey to Islam
01:42 The Halal Highway Podcast
01:53 Experiences and Reflections on Faith
02:24 Challenges and Triumphs in the Journey
07:30 Teaching and Leadership Roles
14:47 The Importance of Knowledge and Character
34:39 The Role of Dawa in Islam
44:46 Understanding the Importance of Mohammed
45:13 Challenges in Embracing Ham
45:36 The Role of Dawa in Transformation
47:06 Nation of Islam's Impact on Individuals
49:12 Social Justice and Service in Islam
50:31 The Concept of Volunteering and Service
51:37 Personal Reflections and Struggles
55:02 Brother Saeed Consulting: Origins and Goals
59:22 Embracing Unique Identities
01:00:35 Living with a Rare Metabolic Condition
01:08:06 Navigating Personal and Professional Challenges
01:10:10 Final Reflections and Gratitude
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Transcript
Bro Saeed
[:[00:00:30] Imam Tariq: Their products are gentle, intentional, and effective. You can find them on social media at Expressive Mocha. That's X-P-R-E-S-S-I-V-E-M-O-C-H-A, and you can go to their website, expressive moca com. They have a full line of products that you'll be happy that you found out about. Today, I'm happy to share with you a conversation I had with Brother Saeed Purcell
[:[00:01:20] Imam Tariq: We recognize that, but we also recognize that there's a great value in the journey. Right. What has brought you to where you're at today? , So that said, we invite you to be as open, as vulnerable, as transparent as you're comfortable being and sharing your story.
[:[00:01:41] Bro Saeed: Oh, did you? Called the Halal Highway.
[:[00:01:45] Bro Saeed: Uh, navigating Faith, one detour at a time. Okay. The whole purpose is to discuss journeys. Mm. And the importance of the journey. Mm-hmm. And not as much the destination, but the experience along the [00:02:00] road and how it informs the outcomes. Mm. Obviously with a certain biases to what the outcome is or should be.
[:[00:02:24] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. Um, who was on his journey, he eventually decided that he was ready to convert. And so he approached me when he decided that he wanted to convert. And so I, I was able to finagle it so that I was giving the huah mm-hmm. That day. And he did the shahada after the huah. And so, um, we announced the podcasts after his shahadah.
[:[00:03:04] Bro Saeed: I went through my own journeys with some faiths, et cetera, and mm-hmm. My experiences. And we had some weird parallels in our own journey. So that was another reason for it. But he seemed a natural, um, counterpoint. Um, he didn't, we, I joked about the first episode, about the before and after, because I'm 32 plus years in.
[:[00:03:32] Imam Tariq: Mm mm Well, wame, I bless you, uh, in this new podcast. Uh, pray that it's beneficial and of course that you have a lot of fun doing it. You said you're 32 years in, right?
[:[00:03:44] Bro Saeed: All right. Well, so going, going back to what we touched on already talking about journeys. So it was a journey as it is with most of us, um, that, uh, go through that process of, um, coming to the faith or renewing our, our commitment to the faith. So it [00:04:00] started in junior year in high school.
[:[00:04:28] Bro Saeed: And then continuing the journey, going through different stops, Daoism, Confucianism, even Native American spirituality. Um, and then eventually starting to stumble upon Islam in. In kind of a left-handed way, uh, coming at it through my advocations with music and then eventually that leading to my first engagements with both the Quran and the Muslim community.
[:[00:05:23] Bro Saeed: So I was, I like to joke, I was switch hitting for over, over 12 months, going to the mosque on Friday in church on Sunday. Mm-hmm. Um, kind of, for lack of a better word, saying it, weighing pros and cons. And before I finally made the decision to actually convert towards, I say jump the broom because. Um, my family growing up was religious, especially my mother.
[:[00:06:03] Bro Saeed: But, um, so I was in their vacation bible school and as soon as that one would finish, my grandmother's church would start theirs and I'd wind up in their vacation Bible school. So I did it twice every summer. And at least once or twice, she was my teacher in PBS at the Lutheran Church. Hmm. Um, after I finished at the United Methodist Church.
[:[00:06:43] Bro Saeed: I already knew a lot of the people there 'cause it was in my neighborhood. Um, and so I took the shahada, um, formally on New Year's Day. So New Year's Day is a holiday for me, but you know, for a whole different reason. It's an anniversary. Right. But, um, so from that, from that [00:07:00] place on, so because I've had kind of a long on ramp, my learning curve, there was definitely still a learning curve, but my learning curve was a lot shorter 'cause of that.
[:[00:07:29] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. Uh, but I was fortunate that when I converted and when the, the community had recently changed leadership, so the leadership had changed. And the brothers that were leading the community at that time were very knowledge focused. And so they were very much encouraging people to learn. And so I got dropped into that mix and that helped lead me into starting to pursue studies, um, first locally and then with institutions around the country.
[:[00:08:29] Bro Saeed: And. Uh, come on. Uh, Islamic, university of Minnesota International Islamic University of Minnesota. Uh, a bunch of other stuff I did outside of degrees, degree focused work as well. So just, it's an ongoing journey. I'm still studying until today. Hmm. Um, it never stops as I'm sure you're more than well aware of.
[:[00:08:51] Imam Tariq: Yeah.
[:[00:09:18] Bro Saeed: Mind you, the internet was still very new. We're talking 1995. Mm-hmm. Uh, the Islamic Center of Minnesota, because I was based in the Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul. Islamic Center of Minnesota was online even at that time. And so when I pulled up their website, they had, on their homepage they had a breakdown of some of the curriculum for their Sunday school program.
[:[00:09:53] Bro Saeed: When I get there, the religious director and I already know each other because he's given Holocaust to different, two different masters [00:10:00] that I attend. And so I am not a passive learner. When I'm there, I'm asking questions even though I'm still kind of low on the foot tot pole. And so he recognized me and he knew me and knew me to be a curious, you know, if not even informed individual.
[:[00:10:34] Bro Saeed: So I was thrown into the deep end of the pool, um, pretty quick. And so for, for lack of a better word, had to learn how to swim. Yeah. Very, very quickly as well. One of the weirdest parts of that entire journey, and this is where it, where again it's very atypical for many converts, um, this was a predominantly immigrant community, so it was a lot of Desi Arab, uh, families kind of even mix.
[:[00:11:16] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:11:28] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:11:37] Bro Saeed: I dressed similar to how I am now. He of course, would grab a TOI off the side of the stack and plop it on my head as I'm standing there getting ready to lead the prayer, because that was the thing to do, of course. So and so. But, but they would push me up front to lead. And so that was unique. And around the same time, I'm actually sitting on the board of another master mm-hmm.
[:[00:12:19] Bro Saeed: And so. With that plus the formal studies.
[:[00:12:31] Bro Saeed: the only thing, the only thing, and this is one of my advices that I often give the converts when they're willing to listen 'cause they're not always willing to hear these things, um, is if you show up looking for what you can do rather than what you can get mm-hmm.
[:[00:13:08] Bro Saeed: And so, you know, this idea of being, of service, you know, and this idea of being, you know, uh, leadership. That's something that I know you, you talk about a lot. In the, in the programs is this idea of being a leader and leaders, and this is something I even still personally struggle with sometimes. A lot of times we define leadership as people with titles, people with these sorts of positions, et cetera, or power, so a sense of power.
[:[00:13:55] Bro Saeed: Um, but the, I'm paraphrasing, but the know their, their do ahs, if they made do, ah, [00:14:00] Allah would, would hear them. And if they, they, they, they suck something, what would help provide for them, et cetera. They were held very highly in Allah esteem, even though the people were very lowly on them, is that that value is there even in the absence of people recognizing and so leading by that example and the challenge for all of us, myself.
[:[00:14:47] Bro Saeed: When you talk about Bain, which is I refer to as academic knowledge, then you have Mafa, which is an experiential knowledge. It's knowledge that you've tasted.
[:[00:14:56] Bro Saeed: And so being able to take those things, those lessons on [00:15:00] leadership, on character and things like that, et cetera, you can study them, you can, you know, do your studies, et cetera.
[:[00:15:24] Bro Saeed: But that memorizing the Quran is, is, is great, is fine, but when you don't understand it, then the true value of that hidayah, the true value of that guidance, which was the purpose of the revelation in the first place, is lost on you and it doesn't show up in your character. And I've heard shocking stories of who f people that have memorized the Quran, but um, are in gangs, are selling drugs, are, you know, in intimate relationships sometimes with other Muslim girls [00:16:00] having children out of wedlock, all this stuff.
[:[00:16:22] Bro Saeed: So you had to become hafi in order to be able to go out and kill people.
[:[00:16:28] Bro Saeed: Yeah.
[:[00:16:29] Bro Saeed: Yeah. I mean, know this is the thing is that, that we, we, I've written about this in the past, is this idea that sometimes we, we, we, uh, ritualize or idolize aspects of our faith to a point where they become from, I, it is the worst way to say it.
[:[00:17:15] Bro Saeed: And he had only recently accepted, uh, Islam, um, so recently that he hadn't had time to learn how to pray even. And the call for Jihad had come forward. There was an army attacking and he was behind a rock or something, eating a date or whatever, and he heard the call. And so he took the date, he threw it away, and he rushed out to the battlefield and was killed.
[:[00:17:37] Bro Saeed: Even before ever praying a single prayer prophet testified for him that he was amongst the righteous that he would be in paradise. Yeah. Without any prayer whatsoever.
[:[00:17:47] Bro Saeed: So here was, here was faith, brand new, like a shiny penny.
[:[00:17:53] Bro Saeed: And no worship to speak of necessarily, not at least in the way that we usually think of worship, but that sincerity of his [00:18:00] faith, it drove him to the ultimate sacrifice and that was enough to open that doorway for him.
[:[00:18:10] Imam Tariq: Mm. I know you said it took about eight years or so, but was there something that you could look at and say that this is, this is something that was put in me, or something I can recognize that prepared me for the transformative power of, of Islam? I
[:[00:18:35] Bro Saeed: And so I was always there at the church. And when I say that, I don't say that to me. You know, they had to drag me into church and, you know, you know, we shoved me into class and things like that. I went willingly. Um, and even after confirmation, which for those who aren't familiar, um, in the, especially the Protestant church, I can't speak for the Catholic church.
[:[00:18:58] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:19:12] Bro Saeed: Coming for the services. I would, not only that, um, I was staying afterwards and actually became basically the lead volunteer in the kitchen running the dishwashing, uh, station. So I was taught by the senior, senior in many respects, uh, head of the kitchen, and he taught me how to use the wholesome. It was a commercial dishwasher, so it was the rise and fall of the whole thing.
[:[00:19:54] Bro Saeed: And so, you know, I got to know the whole area and everything else. So I was there regularly. You know, I, I helped [00:20:00] out with the Youth Sun, uh, Easter Services, stuff like that, et cetera, you know, and so I was doing all different kinds of that stuff, and I was very, I. I'm not, I don't say this to imply I was a perfect representation of Christianity, um, but I was a, a, a con convicted, practicing Christian.
[:[00:20:43] Bro Saeed: And that was even part of why, uh, as I said, the journey had started while I was still in high school as a teenager. And so I was walking, um, a mile two miles to this Pentecostal church, um, for the last maybe three to six [00:21:00] months of my senior year of high school, um, because I was going there and eventually got saved, which is a whole other conversation.
[:[00:21:24] Bro Saeed: But yes, I fell out, you know, I, I fell backwards. I, I lost control.
[:[00:21:29] Bro Saeed: Said by you. I put it in context for him a little bit. It's like you're talking about three hour services. The mothers of the church dancing and speaking in tongues. The pastor's nephew beating the tambourine so hard, his hand starts to bleed.
[:[00:21:59] Bro Saeed: I didn't mean [00:22:00] to. You fall out just because you don't have control in that moment. Right. And so, you know, that was always a fascinating surfing. But so it was like, I was on that journey even from that point and that growing up, and then even for me, one of the catalysts to really make the pivot from the, the, the general journey I was on to the specific journey of looking at Islam came through the autobiography of Malcolm X, as many people do.
[:[00:22:52] Bro Saeed: I'm talking about their full books. Right. You know, I was digesting this stuff and I was very interested in it and [00:23:00] weirdly. The one thing I hadn't digested in all that time was Malcolm. 'cause even unconsciously, there seemed to be this sort of almost like a, like a, a boogeyman aspect to, to Malcolm. Mm-hmm.
[:[00:23:35] Bro Saeed: And, um, so along that journey in the late eighties, early nineties, Islam, Malcolm were all prominent figures in the music.
[:[00:23:46] Bro Saeed: And so because of that, um, I was at a point in my journey where I was trying to figure out next steps. And so the idea to read his autobiography came to my mind. And so that's what I started to.
[:[00:24:19] Bro Saeed: And so having read the whole story
[:[00:24:21] Bro Saeed: um, kind of opened my eyes to the totality of who Malcolm was and what he represented. And so that set me up to then go after completing that and seeing his journey at the end of, you know, coming to understand Orthodox Islam, making that conscious decision to shift and everything else.
[:[00:25:00] Bro Saeed: I know that. Yeah. Um, I didn't go to any of those. I went to a local African American bookstore in the neighborhood and picked up the only Quran they happened to have in stock turned out the Quran they had in stock without knowing. Again, again, this is a law's hand guiding things. Mm-hmm. Not knowing where the journey is going necessarily.
[:[00:25:36] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:25:47] Imam Tariq: That's right.
[:[00:25:57] Bro Saeed: That had been done by non-Muslims that [00:26:00] had a very anti-Muslim rhetoric to it, et cetera. But I didn't, I wound up with the preeminent translation in the English language at that particular time with the commentary as well. So it was the full thing. So it was all of those footnotes, all the political interludes and everything else, et cetera.
[:[00:26:43] Bro Saeed: Um, and I'd go to the book and I'd open it up randomly, wherever I'd left off. You know, no conscious reasoning as to where I was starting from. And lo and behold, the page I opened up to, uh, it was consistently, it was like the book was talking to me and it [00:27:00] was giving me the answers I needed, you know, like I was speaking up to the book.
[:[00:27:30] Bro Saeed: If there are people out there that do all of these things we can think of as being righteous, they just don't call themselves Christian, right? How do we look at that? How do, how do we cope with that?
[:[00:27:46] Bro Saeed: No, no. I was Christian at the time, so, oh, I'm asking from that standpoint.
[:[00:27:49] Bro Saeed: you. So I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the 10 Commandments talking to my mother initially. 'cause she was my example. Right. You know, I'm asking her 'cause I trust her, you know, I trust her judgment, I trust her spirituality. Mm-hmm. I [00:28:00] might have a different answer now or that's a different conversation.
[:[00:28:16] Bro Saeed: At least I don't remember any answer. And so that was what kind of led on that journey is it's first visiting many different Christian denominations, spending some time with the Pentecostals, uh, which taught me something weirdly, and this is one of the things I learned, kind of hindsight being 2020. At the time you couldn't have told me why that was a stop on the journey.
[:[00:28:45] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:29:07] Bro Saeed: And so the Pentecostal Church on the other hand, has a very different approach, right? They're very much word of God, little word of God. This is the book you have to live by. The, the aunties, when they come to their church, they gotta have a hat on their head. They gotta be in dresses, no makeup, you know, the whole nine, et cetera.
[:[00:29:56] Imam Tariq: Mm.
[:[00:30:30] Bro Saeed: And so that was one of those things that really. Primed me for that. The other one that primed me, one of the other aha moments before reading that verse was part of my theory when I continued on that journey after, after the church, um, with looking at other faiths, was the, the theory in the back of my mind was if there's something that seems to be a common factor amongst most or all of these different traditions that had to be significant somehow.
[:[00:31:16] Bro Saeed: 'cause there's differences like DAOs and Confucianism, which were the two I invested more time and energy into, they're more philosophical. Some would argue Hinduism is more philosophy than religion. Long story short, all of them philosophical or, or metaphysical. They all come to a point where they have either a higher power or a higher being.
[:[00:31:57] Bro Saeed: I had no idea what to do with that bit of information. I was [00:32:00] just like, aha. So files it away, don't know what to go with. Then of course, as I start to come into contact with s Islam, when I start to read the Quran in particular, and you see that central focus on tahi, on the oneness of God, and it, I still remember, um, I don't remember which one it was, but there was a documentary on PBS, uh, I can't remember the name of it right now.
[:[00:32:47] Bro Saeed: And so, like one of the examples I think of from the sunna is the prophet correcting a man when he says, what are law wills? And you speaking to the prophet when he hears him say that it seems innocent.
[:[00:33:00] Bro Saeed: You know, when we hear that, we think, what's the problem here? But he's, this is the, the, the, the level of scrutiny and the, and the subtleness of this concept that I think oftentimes gets lost on people.
[:[00:33:31] Bro Saeed: It's a law. Then me, you know, I'm nowhere in there. It's like the laws uppermost don't even begin to equate me in. Your most subtle of speech don't even begin to equate me with him. That's why even, I'm sure you're familiar with this and some of the mess just probably still do this when you, when they have decorations in the message, sometimes if there's a law in Hammed mm-hmm.
[:[00:33:57] Imam Tariq: Yeah.
[:[00:34:15] Bro Saeed: Absolutely. But I think it might be the only state where it's the American flag and Texas side by side. That is the level of, it's like some special compensation they got, I don't know what it was, but they're able to fly their flags. Same level. Yeah. No one else can do that. It's seen as unpatriotic. I actually think there might be a law against it even.
[:[00:35:02] Bro Saeed: And so I try to frame it for them in a way that they understand.
[:[00:35:27] Imam Tariq: Right. And, and Right. And it might not have, it might not have been anything more than hearing the word Allah, you know, in a song. Exactly. Hearing Islam. Exactly. Um, and seeing people taking on, uh, names. Uh, so the public, the public display, and then of course, not even to mention Right. The autobiography of Malcolm X and it coming to the screen.
[:[00:36:11] Bro Saeed: So for me that's a, that's an interesting little, uh, thing because like I said, I've worked in Dawa for all intents and purposes for almost 30 years now, and across different organizations and things like that.
[:[00:36:49] Bro Saeed: So I started attending at the very next week and long, not long after I'd started attending, he had me helping him with teaching responsibilities. So I was involved right from the very beginning. So it was interesting to see it become [00:37:00] what has become now. But, so for Dowell purposes, my approach, often when I'm training people, I tell 'em, I said, look, I said, there's more than one approach you'll see people take to.
[:[00:37:33] Bro Saeed: Um, so my, my, my journey in itself, uh, I, I think you, you hit upon it maybe without even knowing it, um, does inform my approach. I would say that probably is true of many people, uh, consciously or unconsciously. So I was very much on a journey, a very self-guided journey. Uh, there wasn't a personality, an individual, an organization that was strongly involved in influencing my journey.
[:[00:38:17] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:38:28] Bro Saeed: While emotion can be a definite catalyst for the beginning of that process, it, it cannot carry the process 'cause emotion's. Tired. That's right. Emotions aren't maintainable. Mm-hmm. And so while emotion might set you in motion that was unintended emotion might get you going. Um, it's conscious deliberation and, and, and, and an inquiring mind that are gonna maintain it and allow it to grow.
[:[00:39:19] Imam Tariq: mm-hmm.
[:[00:39:28] Bro Saeed: How many shehadh have you given?
[:[00:39:31] Bro Saeed: I've given a few. I'm not gonna quote numbers A, because I don't know the numbers. B, because the numbers don't matter. What matters is how many of them have stuck around?
[:[00:39:41] Bro Saeed: You know this, know this as well. How many stuck around, how many have become, you know, contributing members of the uma?
[:[00:40:09] Bro Saeed: So I say, look, my approach is not gonna be the same as everybody else. I said, but here's the thing. I said, if you, when you're standing at a DAO booth in particular, or you're dressed visibly Muslim, if somebody comes to you and all you're able to do is ask 'em, Hey, how you doing? You know, normal, everyday chitchat you might have with somebody on the, on the bus stop or wherever you are, et cetera, in line, et cetera.
[:[00:40:54] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. BI say it also because of, of statistics, and this is, this is again, going back [00:41:00] to this idea of being a constant learner and learning from multiple places. Is there's an exceptionally valuable book called What A Billion Muslims Really Think. Moga, John Esposito. They did a, I wanna say Pew Research was involved in this, I can't remember exactly, but they did a statistical survey of Muslims worldwide.
[:[00:41:35] Imam Tariq: Yeah,
[:[00:41:50] Imam Tariq: That's right.
[:[00:42:17] Bro Saeed: And that right there alone, and I try to help people understand. I say, look, I said they go away with a positive attitude to someone who's visibly Muslim. Mm-hmm. Who's clearly, you know, they're representing Islam, there's Qurans, there's Islamic brochures, there's maybe Quran playing in the background, whatever, whatever.
[:[00:42:57] Bro Saeed: That then opens that door a little bit [00:43:00] further and allows them to move a little further on that journey. We get obsessed with thinking we have to go from zero to finish
[:[00:43:07] Bro Saeed: In the first interaction. And yeah, it does happen, but a lot of times I don't think we know what might have transpired before us first, second harassing.
[:[00:43:26] Imam Tariq: Mm.
[:[00:43:46] Imam Tariq: Right.
[:[00:43:48] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:44:13] Bro Saeed: So getting somebody to say that from even the most basic standpoint isn't really that hard. The part you often don't hear people have the conversation about is Muhammad. So people don't understand the importance of Muhammad. Don't un don't accept it. Many times I remember a conversation I had at the Minnesota State Fair and that on that very issue with somebody, that the brothers at the table thought that they were ready for shaah.
[:[00:44:42] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:44:54] Bro Saeed: This is where you need to start off, right? Because this is the thing. Many times we'll do the whole [00:45:00] conversation, which is an important conversation. But the reality is, is that's not a hard concept for most people. That thing's imprinted in our DNA spiritually and biologically. But ham is a different conversation,
[:[00:45:17] Bro Saeed: Ham is one that is not a natural transition for most people. That's the one that requires working. That's the one that oftentimes doesn't get focused. And so if you get a shahada that doesn't really deal with that aspect of it, what have you actually gotten 'em to say yes to?
[:[00:45:44] Imam Tariq: And popularizing Islam. And you mentioned, you know, the, the Nation of Islam under the, the leadership of, uh, entourage Muhammad. Yeah. Uh, succeeded by so Maw Muhammad. Mm-hmm. When we think about Dawa and we think about [00:46:00] Islam as a means of transformation, people recognizing their inherent human dignity, their responsibilities that they have to themselves and those around them, and as well to society.
[:[00:46:38] Imam Tariq: Do you feel that there has been, in some instances. Kind of a bifurcation or a separation between just getting someone to take the shaah and, uh, as opposed to what does this person's life look like? The, the difference that, right, that should come about right from this [00:47:00] profession of faith. Do you feel like there's, that some of that has been watered down or maybe lost in some instances?
[:[00:47:29] Bro Saeed: But many people that entered into the nation were coming out of very tough situations, very tough backgrounds, addictions, you know, whatever, all kinds of difficulties, et cetera. And they made massive transformations in individuals' lives. Even if you wanna leave aside theology by itself and just look at that, that was something they did exceptionally well.
[:[00:48:01] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:48:22] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. And they transformed them. And it was a transformation that stuck even outside. You know, and the discipline and the rigor and the ary physiologically, the way they carry themselves, their respect for law, even if they disagree with the law. Mm-hmm. The respect for the law, et cetera. Going to wd Mohamed, his community, from my experience and the c the, the, the maji I, I had taken my shahada in, um, when I first started going there was, was under W War Lee Mohammed.
[:[00:49:12] Bro Saeed: So one of the things in particular that they, they did and continue to do exceptionally well, is the social justice and social services types of types of efforts. Some of the community, the, the statute here that are, that are part of that c. Are, you know, at the forefront of serving the most disadvantaged parts of society, et cetera.
[:[00:49:50] Bro Saeed: And then he goes, he gets the ax, he's able to chop wood, now he's able to sell the wood, and now he's able to provide for himself, for his family, et cetera. So rather than giving a [00:50:00] temporary solution of a, of a morsel of bread or whatever, you know, a dear him or something, he gives him an avocation mm-hmm.
[:[00:50:22] Bro Saeed: It is a long story. But so, you know, it's this idea is that, is that even the prophets example, and I think this has become very much lost on many of our communities. Um, the volunteerism, the idea of being of service to society. One of my favorite quotes from the prophets, so I saw when I use a lot in my own work and outreach in particular, and I'm, I'm, I'm paraphrasing it slightly here, but essentially that the most beloved of humanity to a law, you already know.
[:[00:51:05] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:51:10] Imam Tariq: That's right.
[:[00:51:17] Bro Saeed: Not little movement, not little Muslim. The ness. To people, not to Muslims, not to believers, but to people. That's right. Doesn't matter. Their faith doesn't matter, you know, rich, poor, whatever, doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. You know, we shouldn't even be concerned about is there a payoff for me? Is there anything like that?
[:[00:51:46] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:51:59] Bro Saeed: It gets [00:52:00] to a high concept within, uh, tsia and, and, and, uh, the whole issue of ALA and things like that. But this idea that yes, all law is, you know, giving a law is generous, Allah is all of these things, but we do it out of a love for a law. That's where it's supposed to come from. Not ex not, not doing it only because of the reward.
[:[00:52:22] Bro Saeed: But doing it because we love the rewarder.
[:[00:52:26] Bro Saeed: Whether he gives us or he doesn't give us mm-hmm. Understanding that him not giving us is, is merciful to us. Even though we, we may struggle to see that sometimes if he isn't given this something, it's because he knows somewhere in his wisdom either that's not the right thing for you, or this isn't the right time for that thing.
[:[00:52:45] Bro Saeed: That's a really hard lesson to learn. Again, that's that knowing it here, which many of us understand it at some level intellectually, but really letting it sink into our hearts where it becomes [00:53:00] a truth inside of us. That transition, even though it's, you know, 12 to 18 inches, whatever you want to call it, et cetera, that's the longest 12 to 18 inches into the human, human existence.
[:[00:53:19] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:53:34] Bro Saeed: I got you. Any single one of these things, I could literally go for 30 minutes on. That's why I gotta like just, no, stay here, stay here. I'm with you. But any one of these people, you can find statements from them essentially saying the same thing about how they struggle with these things sometimes. Mm-hmm.
[:[00:54:23] Bro Saeed: Sometimes people will ask me a question sometimes and I'll be like, every, like, you know, I'll give 'em the answer. And the answer seems really simple because it might be like one sentence is the answer to the question. I'm like, it's that easy. But it's also that hard. Yeah. 'cause the sentence can go here, but the meaning and the, and the significance and the impact of that sentence to reach here to the heart, it can go to the head.
[:[00:54:50] Imam Tariq: Yeah. It's a lot of intentionality and it's not a microwave journey. It's a, it's a slow and a steady process.
[:[00:55:02] Imam Tariq: Tell us about, tell us a bit about Brother Saeed, uh, consulting and.
[:[00:55:11] Bro Saeed: it, it, it, it, it was, it was kind of, for lack of a better way of saying this, forced on me, uh, there was a lot of color kicking in, basically. Mm-hmm. So I was, I, I, I still am technically working for the Islamic Center of Irving here in Texas.
[:[00:55:46] Imam Tariq: Okay.
[:[00:56:09] Bro Saeed: I chose that particular name. Brother Sayed Consulting is, you're the first person to get it right. Money people. I go on Zoom calls now and people think the first name is bro. Like, it's like, it makes me laugh. I'm like, how is that not obvious? How is that not obvious or whatever. So I deliberately did that because, you know, I, I've been called in various spaces, you know, between, from Sheik to Iam, to this, to that, the other thing, you know, and I serve as an IAM in the Islamic Center very, right now.
[:[00:56:59] Imam Tariq: [00:57:00] Hmm.
[:[00:57:14] Bro Saeed: Um, we
[:[00:57:16] Bro Saeed: I like to, I like to, I like to lean into the informality. Yeah. Now I say that, well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I have a reputation for overexplaining things, and part of it's because in 32 plus years, and, you know, in odd number of years with, with studies, there's a lot that's up here.
[:[00:57:52] Bro Saeed: And so it's like, I, I, people ask me a question, I'll give 'em a through Z in the answer. And then when [00:58:00] the time comes from q and a at the end of the lecture, it's like everybody's like, I all, I guess I answered all y'all questions. And the thing is actually a lot of times I did, because I over explained everything.
[:[00:58:32] Bro Saeed: Okay. Um, so I'm very meticulous about, you'll hear me quoting stuff all the time, you know, and if I have the time to prep something, I have like, you know, very detailed notes for myself. Especially on the, the primary references. And so it's like I'm throwing out a bunch of stuff at people and I'm pulling from multiple sources, a lot of 'em, classical, sometimes contemporary, a lot of times again, a lot of pop culture references, comic books, movies, sci-fi, you name it, it'll all [00:59:00] get in there because I don't try, I don't try to pretend.
[:[00:59:22] Bro Saeed: Um, but I'm trying to, part of, and the bro part is trying to lean into that is all of the unique qualities that make me, me. So you may or may not have seen recently, one of the, uh, monikers I've given myself recently on some of my social media platforms is the Muslim Highlander. Mm. Because I have a prominent.
[:[00:59:53] Imam Tariq: mm-hmm.
[:[01:00:02] Bro Saeed: And then I also, another part that I'm still trying to navigate is I was born with a rare metabolic condition
[:[01:00:24] Imam Tariq: If there can be only one, if you've gotten younger, uh, folks, they will definitely not get that. That's a whole other conversation. Yeah. I love the movie. But anyway, go, go right ahead. You were saying that you had a, a rare metabolic.
[:[01:00:44] Bro Saeed: So it's very rare. Um, and effectively it means that the body does not process protein properly and, uh, and in adulthood it can lead to severe neurocognitive challenges. So [01:01:00] thinking executive function, emotional control, things like that. Um, so that was something that I, I mean, I've always known because I was born with it and I was diagnosed within few days of my birth.
[:[01:01:36] Bro Saeed: And so. I'm progressively leaning more and more into that aspect of who I am and meeting others like myself the same age, some of whom saying similar stories and learning a lot about myself and my journey and the, the what the journey could have been for me. Oftentimes when I was younger, knowing what I knew about how it could have affected me as a [01:02:00] child.
[:[01:02:03] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[01:02:23] Bro Saeed: This is me if one thing went differently. Right. Because like for instance, the name I chose site. Mm-hmm. Blessed is one of the meanings, I would argue, the primary meaning, but that's a, a separate conversation. But the reason I chose it was very specific and it's related to this. So when I was born, my mother and my father had moved to Miami, Florida relatively recently, like within a month or two.
[:[01:03:05] Bro Saeed: I know. But goes to the phone book, opens up the phone book, and starts looking through the phone book at doctors' names, looking for, in her words, a good German
[:[01:03:13] Bro Saeed: She's essentially a hundred, well she's not a hundred percent German, but she's very German. Um, and so she's looking for a good German name.
[:[01:03:44] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. This is the only one in Florida doing it because it is not mandated at this time. This is the heel prick test that we all take for granted now. It was not mandated back at that time, and he was the only guy doing it. So that was the doctor that delivered me. He, he ran the test on [01:04:00] me within a few days of my birth.
[:[01:04:25] Imam Tariq: Mm.
[:[01:04:46] Bro Saeed: So when I was reading the Quran still before I, I think it was before I'd become Muslim, even, I came across Sayeed in the text and in the footnotes and the use of Ali. They explained terms sometimes and Sayeed was explained in the [01:05:00] footnotes. And when I saw the explanation, I'm like, that's the one. Hmm. So that was the name I chose.
[:[01:05:17] Imam Tariq: don't.
[:[01:05:24] Bro Saeed: But when I went to change my name, I changed everything. I changed first, middle, and last. So this led to some interesting conversations a few years later, because when I would go on job interviews, back in the old days, there weren't Zoom calls and stuff like that. You'd sent a resume, faceless name, you know, they know nothing else and go there, and they, they all, they have to go on is your resume.
[:[01:06:07] Bro Saeed: But eventually I changed my name, uh, back more in lines with Islamic, uh, teachings around name, name conventions. And so I, I kept the first name. So I could've, I could've changed that, but I changed, all I did was change the spelling. Right. But then I took my father's name as my middle name and kept the family name.
[:[01:06:47] Bro Saeed: It's like even the name is a reference to my, my beginnings, you know? And many things along the way, the Muslim lander is leaning into certain aspects of my identity. I'm still figuring, love that, figuring out how to try to, I love that. Incorporate the PKU part. Yeah. [01:07:00] Well, to be honest, that was, that was me competing with a local, or used to be a local Yusef Estee son, brand
[:[01:07:06] Imam Tariq: Oh, okay.
[:[01:07:29] Bro Saeed: I was like, I don't think there's a Muslim Highlander out there. I was like, let's go with that. And I could think of a whole bunch of ways to use it. I was like, okay, we're going with that. What the, so,
[:[01:07:38] Bro Saeed: we
[:[01:07:50] Imam Tariq: Um, but you're a brave one. Um, and it's really nice. It's nice, it's not so much an open ended 'cause you've listened to, you've listened to a couple and you [01:08:00] know, I like to do these, you know, kind of finish, finish the prompt, you know, finish the sentence.
[:[01:08:06] Imam Tariq: before we get to that, where can folks keep up with you on social media?
[:[01:08:21] Bro Saeed: you can find, you can find the Muslim Highlander on YouTube and TikTok. Okay. Um, I believe it is bro. Saeed on Instagram and, and, uh, x Okay.
[:[01:08:55] Imam Tariq: yeah.
[:[01:08:57] Bro Saeed: I saw, I saw the recent, recent, uh, article that [01:09:00] you put put out there Yeah. This morning as well. Yeah. Yeah. I am. That was an interesting reflection by the way.
[:[01:09:16] Imam Tariq: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. That, that is one of my, um, uh, it sounds odd to people who are not familiar with our tradition. And I don't always lead off, I don't always lead off with the Islamic roots of what I'm doing. 'cause I'm, my, my audience is Right, right. Um, you know, I'm, I'm trying to think of a little broader.
[:[01:10:10] Bro Saeed: I'm most surprised by the happiness I have in my life right now.
[:[01:10:16] Bro Saeed: I've been through a lot of ups and downs, um, in many different spaces. I've been married, depending on how you count five or seven times, depending on how you count. I say that because one of my, one of my wives, we remarried twice. Mm-hmm.
[:[01:11:04] Bro Saeed: Um, trying not to speak to another one. That's all of the conversation. But, um, the, my, my current wife who, um, um, just over eight years with her now, and for me, that's a personal record.
[:[01:11:18] Bro Saeed: uh, which in and of itself, which in and of itself is, is huge. Um, we're still as happy as you could ask for the, the evolving, you know, space that is a relationship, uh, but still very happy.
[:[01:11:46] Imam Tariq: Mm.
[:[01:11:58] Bro Saeed: When she is goes to the [01:12:00] hospital, I do not leave unless it's with her. So I sleep there, I sleep there, whatever that means. I was fortunate, this room we had this time around was very, very comfortable in comparison, but still not comfortable. Yeah. But you know, I stay with her. I stay with her. So I'm there.
[:[01:12:54] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. Um, some things were, we're hoping each other were gonna be doing with them very soon. Um, other [01:13:00] stuff as well as Charla mra, uh, this fall, late, this fall. Bunch of stuff. Um, bunch of stuff to look forward to. Um, so just so many things. It, it, it goes back to that issue of practicing gratitude. Yeah.
[:[01:13:23] Bro Saeed: mm-hmm. That when you are grateful,
[:[01:13:28] Bro Saeed: You know, and, and one of the close on a closing thought, just on that part right there, there was something that came across recently about that Aya, about, uh, if you are grateful, then I will give you more. That oftentimes this, this I, I think, is telling of us many times when we read that verse, we read, and I will give you more our immediate minds.
[:[01:14:16] Bro Saeed: Mm-hmm. And I think this, going back to some of those subtleties we talked about in the beginning, this is one of those things that
[:[01:14:34] Imam Tariq: That's right.
[:[01:14:51] Bro Saeed: Really, really being honest with ourselves and, you know, calling, calling, you know, if we see the warts, we gotta talk about the wards. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we, we, we can't [01:15:00] look away from whatever ugliness we might find. Uh, because going back to 12 steps, I don't know why I 12 steps is kind of my head. The very first step in a 12 step program is admitting that you are a particular way that I am an alcoholic, I am an addict, I am a this, I am a, that if you have arrogance, it just goes back to a conversation my wife and I were having earlier today.
[:[01:15:29] Imam Tariq: that. That's right.
[:[01:15:49] Bro Saeed: And for people who don't understand the story here, Marianne was in the charge of Zacharia. She was in a, she was kept separate so that she wasn't involved with the men. You know, the men didn't have free, free access or [01:16:00] anything, et cetera. When Zacharia would come to her, he would find her with provisions of food.
[:[01:16:22] Bro Saeed: So completely not normal and so miraculous in that she had provisions with no one providing for her visibly plus miraculous because the revisions she was getting were not even in season. And so he saw this and the, the point that was being made here, this is from a great app. For those who aren't familiar, there's an app called Nia.
[:[01:17:05] Bro Saeed: But, um, they, they were talking about how when he saw that he didn't do what many of us would do and naturally as we'd become jealous. So he saw that as a sign of a law's ability to provide That's right. So rather than become jealous, it inspired him to turn to his Lord even more. And so as I was discussing that with her, I told her, I said, I said, I have a hard time with that sometimes because I see people that I feel like were given preference over me, you know, that, that don't have the time in, don't have the, the, the, the educational background don't have the experience, background being given opportunities that I haven't been given.
[:[01:17:43] Bro Saeed: And Yeah, I, I feel a particular way about that.
[:[01:17:46] Bro Saeed: You know, and, you know, I, I can become resentful and it's a struggle. Even now, even as I was talking with her about it, it was like I was feeling those things come up again. Mm-hmm. I'm like, that's why I don't try to delve into it, because I know if I delve into it, I, I go down that [01:18:00] hole.
[:[01:18:20] Bro Saeed: It feels like, it's like, but, but you know, you shouldn't be that way. You can't be that way. You need to work through that. And so, challenging myself to work through those things. And so she was in that conversation, she was reminding me about it, and we were talking about it, and I was like, it was like, it's not easy.
[:[01:18:47] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[01:18:50] Imam Tariq: Right.
[:[01:18:59] Bro Saeed: [01:19:00] True growth physically as well as spiritually and mentally requires a certain amount of pain, for lack of a better word. Mm-hmm. If you're not experiencing some of that pain, you're most likely in not growing.
[:[01:19:13] Bro Saeed: So you need to be comfortable with the idea that, and this, this actually I will, I promise I'll close this.
[:[01:19:26] Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.
[:[01:19:38] Bro Saeed: Team. So you are, you're being given responsibility, but it's not one that's supposed to be a cakewalk,
[:[01:19:46] Bro Saeed: It's supposed to require some effort on your part.
[:[01:19:50] Bro Saeed: So it's not meant to be just like, you know, nothing at all. You're supposed to have to work forward a little bit. Mm-hmm. But that tech leaf, that responsibility, that [01:20:00] divine obligation is laid upon you, whether it's a law or CM or whatever, et cetera.
[:[01:20:06] Imam Tariq: That's right.
[:[01:20:18] Imam Tariq: Yeah.
[:[01:20:26] Bro Saeed: So I mean the, the happiness I find in my life now, when, when I think about it. It is so easy to want to be down about so many things, especially in the current climate in the world today.
[:[01:20:40] Bro Saeed: Sometimes we just have to find the joy in, in, in the smallest things
[:[01:20:46] Bro Saeed: even if that's as simple as, even if that's as simple as picking up the, picking up a law's book and reading a page.
[:[01:21:01] Imam Tariq: page. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, you dropped some real jewels. Um, and I, I, I will, I will close this out with this, um, what you said about, especially in positions of leadership, um, and I wouldn't even relegate it, just the positions of leadership.
[:[01:22:01] Imam Tariq: How come, how come it looks like it's all coming together for this person and I've been grinding for all of this time. You know? Um, and then because we can't fix what we don't recognize. Mm-hmm. Um, yes. So I think you, you've shared so much. Um, that has been truly beneficial. It wasn't just that, but that's since that's since we're we're in that season, you're
[:[01:22:26] Bro Saeed: You keep that up. There's a whole, there's a whole Star Wars reference that goes with that observation.
[:[01:22:42] Imam Tariq: I, I, I think for our
[:[01:22:50] Imam Tariq: know, I think that's the beauty of these kind of platforms is that they allow us to show up with authenticity. Yes, absolutely. Um, and it is not to necessarily have on Yeah, just one hat.
[:[01:23:03] Bro Saeed: Oh, oh, you, you, you gonna bring the hat thing? I'll bring all the, all different hat I got sitting around here. We'll go through that too. So.
[:[01:23:20] Imam Tariq: You can find me also I Ma Tarin, Facebook and Instagram. We'd love to hear from you. If you have not subscribed already, please do so. We're gonna leave you as we greeted. You may the peace that only God can give be upon you.
