Sheikh Saifullah: From Southern Baptist to Minnesota Muslim Leader

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Assalamu

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alaikum.

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May the peace that only

God can give be upon you.

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Welcome to the American Muslim

Podcast presented by Bayan On Demand.

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I'm your host Imam Tariq El-Amin and it

is my pleasure to continue bringing you

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new conversations each week with leaders

from around the country who are serving

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their communities in a variety of ways.

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Today, we are blessed to have

with us Sheikh Saifullah Muhammad.

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He is the resident scholar of

the Northwest Islamic Community

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Center, NWICC, and he's the co

founder of Salaam Community.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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Assalamu

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Sheikh Saifullah: barakatuh.

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I'm

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Tariq.

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JazakAllah khair for having me.

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Imam Tariq: It is my pleasure.

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It's my honor.

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So as you have probably heard already,

the purpose behind this platform is

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to lift up not just the work, but to

lift up the people who are doing the

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work, to talk about their journeys.

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We invite folks to be as

transparent, as vulnerable, uh,

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as they are comfortable being.

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So with that said, Where did it

all start for Sheikh Saifullah?

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Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, I'm already

feeling very comfortable in this

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room, alhamdulillah, here at CTS.

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So, for those who know me, my mom

is German Irish, American, and my

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biological father is Pakistani.

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And I was actually raised

Southern Baptist growing up.

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So, that was a very interesting

part of my life, for sure.

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Growing up Southern Baptist

in Southern Illinois.

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And then, at the age of about

eight or nine, my mom met my

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stepdad.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Um, and that's when, um,

she became Muslim and converted to Islam.

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And I did as well.

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So, thinking back, I think the moment

that I found out we're no longer

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Christian, but now we're Muslim.

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Okay.

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Um, tried to explain that

to an eight year old.

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Um, it's not that, it's

not that easy for sure.

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I was actually baptized and I, I was, I

used to go to Sunday school at the church.

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So going from that to now, um, you know,

putting down a prayer rug, facing the

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Qibla and praying, um, and looking at

a book and following the movements.

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in the book, try to wrap my

mind around what it means to be

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Muslim and no longer Christian.

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And the difference is trying

to explain that to my siblings.

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I was the oldest of three siblings.

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One of the memories I have is,

you know, we went to one of our

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friend's house's, um, first birthday

and they were also Christian.

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So it's Spent the night there and in the

morning, it was time to go to church.

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It was Sunday and I understood

we're no longer Christian.

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Now I'm Muslim.

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Um, so I didn't go, but my younger

brother, he followed the routine and

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just went on the bus and I go home and my

stepfather is like, where's your brother?

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I'm like.

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I think he went to church.

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And he was like, we're not, we're

not Christian, we're Muslim now.

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So that was very interesting moment.

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But just trying to, you know, learn

the new religion and everything.

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And my mom being a convert, you

know, learning with her side by side.

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Very powerful moment for me.

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Imam Tariq: Even at the

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Sheikh Saifullah: age

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Imam Tariq: of eight, did you feel a

connection between the experience in the

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church, not the ritual, but the feeling?

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Between that and what you would later.

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feel in the masjid, or was it

just you were just there because

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your parents brought you there?

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Sheikh Saifullah: No, I

think you know growing up.

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I was always someone who was really

involved with religion I really

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enjoyed you know going to church and

later not too long later actually

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after we became Muslim the The closest

mosque to us was about an hour away.

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So my father would take us

there for Sunday school.

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Um, and I had a lot of connection

moments when I connected, you know,

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being in Sunday school in the church and

being in Sunday school in the mosque.

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And, you know, feeling a sense of purpose

in both, I would say, for sure, for me.

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With Islam, it was more around now

learning a new language, right?

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I was not someone who spoke Arabic.

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So everything is in Arabic.

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Um, so it was a little foreign to

me, to be honest, in the beginning.

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Um, for the first couple of years until

I was able to, you know, learn it.

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But, um, you know, within 30

minutes I learned Sufatiha.

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Really?

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Yeah, within 30 minutes.

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And, um, the teacher was

completely blown away.

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the Sunday school teacher.

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I remember it was an Arab mosque,

mostly immigrants from like

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Saudi Arabia, from the Emirates.

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It was one of the campus mosques.

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So they, there were teachers,

but there were students.

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So they were young university students.

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And the teacher went to my

father and he tells a story.

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I was too young to remember.

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He tells the story that I

memorized the Surah Fatiha

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within the first 30, 40 minutes.

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And the teacher is like, you know, Arabic.

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And he's like, no, I don't know Arabic.

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And just super surprised that I

was able to grasp it that fast.

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And growing up, they said I had

some kind of photographic memory.

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I wish I still had it, but

that's no longer a reality.

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But yeah, those are some of the very

beginning formative memories I have.

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Imam Tariq: So you were

in Southern Illinois.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Yes, Marion,

Illinois to be specific.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So the closest mosque to us

was in Carpendale, Illinois.

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So that's where we would go, um, for

like any Middle Eastern food and um,

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Halal groceries and the mosque was there.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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All right.

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You're the oldest sibling.

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I am.

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I am.

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I would assume you had

a couple of Christmases.

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A hundred percent.

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Okay.

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What was it like for you to

go from, in not just being.

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In your home.

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Yeah.

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But everybody else outside

is also celebrating.

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Yeah.

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But you're in Southern Illinois.

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You're in Marion, Illinois.

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Yeah.

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Not really a hotbed of Islamic activity.

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Not, not really.

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So, was it difficult for you in

any way making the transition?

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So,

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Sheikh Saifullah: Honestly, actually,

um, it happened really fast.

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Um, the transit, you know, one day we were

Christian, the next day we were Muslim.

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So, it was not really like kids

sitting down, like, you know, we're

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actually, my mom, because my mom was

exploring by herself, to be honest.

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So, before she married my stepdad,

she started exploring the religion,

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she was reading the Qur'an.

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Um, before she actually married my

stepdad, who was a Sunni Muslim.

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Um, so, there was that.

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But also, um, Very quickly, um,

my parents, my stepdad, and my

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mom decided to move us to Chicago.

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So my mom, I was born in Chicago, and

then my mom moved us, um, to southern

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Illinois to be close with my grandparents.

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Um, that's where, she grew up

in Heron, Illinois, which is

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not too far from, from Marion.

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So her parents lived there, and

she was raising us as a single mom.

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My stepfather left our life when I

was about two or three years old.

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Your stepfather?

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My stepfather.

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I'm sorry, my biological father.

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Okay.

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My biological father left us.

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Um, my mom was raising us as a single

mom, so she brought us closer to her

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family to have that family support.

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Right, right.

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Um, so there was that, but you know, when

she married my stepfather, immediately,

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you know, they had, he had a concern.

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That, you know, this is not the

best environment to raise a Muslim

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family, just like you were saying.

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So that's, I think within a

couple of months, we actually

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ended up leaving Marion, Illinois

and coming back to Chicago.

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We moved to Skokie.

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Imam Tariq: If I could

just quickly interject.

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Yeah.

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Imam Tariq: All right.

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For those of you who are listening

outside of Chicago, not familiar with

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Chicago, if you go anywhere else in the

world, it doesn't matter if you were 30

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miles or 40 miles outside of Chicago.

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You're going to say you're from Chicago.

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Okay.

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So Skokie, Schaumburg,

Woodfield, it doesn't matter.

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You're from Chicago.

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All right.

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Go.

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Yeah.

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No,

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Sheikh Saifullah: no, no.

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I agree with you.

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I never grew up telling

people I'm from Skokie.

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I live in Skokie.

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I live in Chicago, even

as 30, 40 minutes away.

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Um, so yeah, so we moved to Skokie.

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Um, and so we were with my

stepfather's family who are Muslim.

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So we had that transition so quickly

from, Being Christian, Christmas and

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everything to now all the Muslim holidays.

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Imam Tariq: So you said that the, the

teachers at the Sunday school at the week,

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was that a Sunday school weekend school?

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It

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Sheikh Saifullah: was

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Imam Tariq: a

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Sheikh Saifullah: Sunday

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Imam Tariq: school.

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It was a Sunday school at

the mosque, at the mosque.

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So they were impressed, obviously, you

know, here's this eight year old kid

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who's memorized sort of sophatia and,

and that's the first chapter of the

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Quran for those of you who might not

be familiar, um, in 30, 40 minutes.

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Yeah.

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Were you like?

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Fast tracked or did they say look

we need to get this young man

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in here We see potential in him.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Honestly, it

was funny because I learned Fatiha

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without knowing Arabic So I, I had,

I didn't know the alpha alphabet.

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It was only by a memory,

by listening, right?

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So they would say something

and I would just repeat it.

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So I was still in the basic class.

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I was still learning the

alphabet, Alif, the A, B, C, D.

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But I remember it's

Fatiha, which was like.

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How do you do that?

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Which is a miracle of the

Qur'an, He says in the Qur'an,

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Um, Inna nahnu lahafizoon Right?

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We are the ones that

who revealed the Qur'an.

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We are the ones who protect it.

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Right?

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And Allah then asked, Hal min muddakir?

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Is there anyone that's going

to be to memorize the Qur'an?

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Allah has made it easy to memorize.

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And I think that's a manifestation of

that, that someone who has not heard the

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Qur'an ever before in my life before that.

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Sitting in one class.

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And being able to memorize the entire

first chapter, which is about five or six

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lines within one hour of Sunday school.

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I mean, it's pretty amazing.

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Imam Tariq: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I know we're jumping back.

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We're going to come back to these

formative years, but now as a resident

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scholar, as somebody who continues to

pursue education, right, as a seeker

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of knowledge, when you look back on

that, how does that make you feel?

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Sheikh Saifullah: Hanla, I've

never actually looked back.

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I think this is the first time I've

never, I've never, like, actually, just

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remembering the story, actually, this

is the first time I'm actually recalling

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the story, to be 100 percent honest.

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Today, my mom, just before this podcast,

was sending me baby pictures of myself.

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So now this is all like coming back to

me, um, but yeah, I think SubhanAllah,

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it's just amazing to see where I

started from and where I ended up.

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I mean, my mom always tells the story

that, you know, I was born in an apartment

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here in Lakeshore Drive and one of the,

one of the skyscrapers here on Lakeshore.

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And, um.

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My biological father left the room to go

get something for my mom and my mom ends

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up giving birth to me in the apartment.

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She goes into labor right then and

there and she, she tells a story that

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she remembers like just giving birth

and I'm the first child and she was

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like, I don't know what happened.

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I just wake up and you're in my hands

and she tells a story and she was

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like, from that day, I knew that you

were going to do something special.

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So, you know, I dedicate a

lot of this to my mother.

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The, the, my journey and my, um,

my perseverance and the support

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that I received from her, both

spiritual and emotional, and that

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has allowed me to get to this point.

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Imam Tariq: Hmm.

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Mashallah.

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Uh, obviously she is very

proud of you on the left.

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Let's delve into, uh,

identity a little bit.

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So you said your mom is German

Irish, German, Irish, French, German,

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Irish, French, and your stepdad.

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Is a Pakistani.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

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So my biological father and my

stepfather, both are Pakistani.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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All right.

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Okay.

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All right.

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So that did work.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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As it relates to the melding of

cultures the intersection of culture

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for you What was that like was that

something that was observable to you

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at any particular point Where you

saw yourself as the representation

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of two cultures coming together.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, you

know, this is interesting.

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I, I didn't think about this until

we had a class on intersectionality.

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Yeah.

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Once we had that class, kind of starting

putting the pieces together, but.

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Yeah.

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Sheikh Saifullah: So I grew up on

Devon area in West Rogers Park.

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Shout out

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Imam Tariq: Usmaniyas.

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Sheikh Saifullah: Yes.

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Yeah.

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So growing up in the Devon area for me.

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It's a mostly Indo Pak, Desi community.

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Me presenting myself as a

more Caucasian white kid.

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It was very difficult, actually,

growing up and being part of a

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madrasa, which is a traditional

place of learning of the Qur'an.

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I was always the odd one out, right?

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I didn't speak the language.

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I wasn't really used to

the food at that point.

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Uh, I didn't present myself

as, you know, Pakistani.

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So I always had a sense of

not fitting in, um, too well.

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And that's true for myself

and my two siblings.

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So it was three of us, and all three

of us were like the odd ones out.

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Um, so it was actually very difficult,

I would say, growing up with a

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mixed identity, because I didn't

really I have a chance to connect

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to my Pakistani side for many years.

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And then when I was moved from Marion,

Illinois to Chicago, all of a sudden I was

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thrown into this Indo Pak fully community.

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And anyone who's been to Divan, they

know it's literally like Pakistan India.

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Like you're just walking on the streets.

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I just came back from Pakistan.

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There's no difference.

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So you're walking on the streets and

there's no more sense of like connected to

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my mom's side, the white Caucasian side.

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of things.

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So I always felt very confused, I

would say, growing up, to be honest.

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Um, until it was not until my later

years when I grew up and I came back

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and I served the community, I was able

to reconcile both sides of my identity.

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Imam Tariq: Now, how were you able to do

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Sheikh Saifullah: that?

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Honestly, I think it's just

by serving the community and

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seeing myself in the community.

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You know, we have so many different

parts, especially the community I serve.

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Very diverse.

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Um, community, you know, you have

Americans, you have, you have people

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from Pakistan, India, you have

people from the Middle East, and you

325

: 00:14:49

have people from, you know, Asia.

326

: 00:14:51

So you have all these people, and

then you have the convert community,

327

: 00:14:54

the white and the black Americans.

328

: 00:14:56

So just being able to, um, really serve

them all, I finally became comfortable

329

: 00:15:02

in my own shoes as a white Pakistani, um,

330

: 00:15:05

Imam Tariq: man.

331

: 00:15:06

Mm.

332

: 00:15:07

Imam Tariq: Mm.

333

: 00:15:07

You know, it really is something

that so much of how we see ourselves.

334

: 00:15:12

It's also a reflection

of how others see us.

335

: 00:15:15

And there's some dissonance that can

be a part of that because you are as

336

: 00:15:18

much Pakistani as you are, uh, uh,

white, German, uh, Irish, French, right?

337

: 00:15:25

But to the eye, it's you automatically

get put into a box, right?

338

: 00:15:29

Is there anything that you point

to in your study of Islam that has

339

: 00:15:35

expanded your sense of self identity?

340

: 00:15:40

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, I think, you know,

you know, when you look at the Islamic

341

: 00:15:43

tradition, it's so beautiful because

you have statements where The Qur'an is

342

: 00:15:49

very clear that Inna khalaqnakum untha

We created you from male and female

343

: 00:15:53

Waja'alnakum shu'uban wa qabaila li

ta'arafu We made you into tribes and

344

: 00:15:57

to nations that you may get to know one

another Um, so you see this clear, um,

345

: 00:16:02

setting of the tone Right, that, you know,

there's It doesn't really matter where

346

: 00:16:06

we come from It doesn't really matter the

color of our skin It doesn't matter the

347

: 00:16:09

language that we speak And then you have

the statement of the Prophet Sallallahu

348

: 00:16:12

alayhi wa alayhi wa sallam Where he says

Inna Allah la yanzur ila surikum Right,

349

: 00:16:18

Allah does not look at your shapes of

your body and your color of your skins.

350

: 00:16:22

He looks at your hearts and your actions.

351

: 00:16:26

And I think so, um, you know, Islam

kind of sets the tone for us, how

352

: 00:16:31

we should be looking at the world.

353

: 00:16:33

Unfortunately, a lot of

times we have these ideas.

354

: 00:16:35

, other lens that we put on, but sometimes

you take a step back and put the Quranic

355

: 00:16:39

Islamic lens on to actually see the world.

356

: 00:16:42

So I think, um, learning the tradition

for me and actually going deeper

357

: 00:16:45

into my studies is really another

reason I would say for sure that has

358

: 00:16:49

allowed me to be the person that I am.

359

: 00:16:51

Imam Tariq: Okay.

360

: 00:16:52

So speaking of your studies, you

mentioned that you were at a, uh, madrasa.

361

: 00:16:57

In the Devon, the Rogers Park area, right?

362

: 00:17:00

So, what was, uh, so in addition,

aside from it being a space we felt

363

: 00:17:05

like, you know, the odd one out, on

a positive note, what are some of the

364

: 00:17:09

positive things that you took from

that, and where did that lead you to?

365

: 00:17:14

Sheikh Saifullah: To be honest,

I think that was a very important

366

: 00:17:17

time in my life, being able to

connect with the book of God.

367

: 00:17:21

I studied at SOFA Educational Guidance,

which is right in the middle of Devon.

368

: 00:17:25

Um, right on top of World Food

Market across from Jama Masjid.

369

: 00:17:29

So everyone who is familiar

with Divan, they know that area.

370

: 00:17:31

And it's still there today, actually.

371

: 00:17:33

It's still running.

372

: 00:17:33

They have a branch now in Skokie, but

it's still running as their main branch.

373

: 00:17:37

So being able to go there at such a young

age and connect with the Book of God, you

374

: 00:17:42

know, and really spend my day and night.

375

: 00:17:45

It took me about five years, five to

six years, depending on who you ask, to

376

: 00:17:49

actually memorize the Qur'an, which is,

, quite longer than it takes other children.

377

: 00:17:54

Um, usually the, the average time,

two to three years, yeah, that's

378

: 00:17:58

like the average time you have your

outliners, those who memorize the entire

379

: 00:18:02

book, um, and I remember one of our

classmates in six months and one of

380

: 00:18:07

my teachers, um, in Pakistan, which I

think we'll talk about later on, , he

381

: 00:18:11

memorized the entire Quran in a month.

382

: 00:18:15

What in a month?

383

: 00:18:17

And guess which month That

was In the month of Ramadan?

384

: 00:18:20

Imam Tariq: No.

385

: 00:18:20

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

386

: 00:18:21

In the month of Ramadan, he

would memorize a ju a day.

387

: 00:18:26

One part a day.

388

: 00:18:26

So the Koran, for those who

are not familiar with it,

389

: 00:18:29

are divided into 30 parts.

390

: 00:18:30

He would memorize one part every

single night until he memorize

391

: 00:18:34

.

Imam Tariq: I feel like my head is about to explode.

392

: 00:18:37

Um, like what?

393

: 00:18:40

Yeah.

394

: 00:18:40

What.

395

: 00:18:41

Yeah.

396

: 00:18:42

Sheikh Saifullah: Okay.

397

: 00:18:44

So, you know, five, six years is a little

bit longer on the longer side, but, um, it

398

: 00:18:50

was because, you know, I struggled, with

the Arabic language, but that struggle

399

: 00:18:53

was beautiful for me because I had my

mother by my side the whole entire time.

400

: 00:18:58

I remember I would open my

Qur'an in Arabic and she would

401

: 00:19:01

open the English version.

402

: 00:19:02

And one of my most fondest memories, and

I've said this in, A lot of my programs

403

: 00:19:07

at my mosque and when I travel, Surah

Maryam, you know, the chapter of Mary.

404

: 00:19:12

May God's blessings and peace be upon her.

405

: 00:19:15

I would read one verse in Arabic and then

she would read the English Yusuf Ali, I

406

: 00:19:18

really remember it was a red cover Yusuf

Ali translation And she would just read

407

: 00:19:23

the English and that's how I remember

Isfah Mariam and just having that moment

408

: 00:19:27

My mother, you know, she could not read

Arabic But you know She loved you know

409

: 00:19:31

the recitation and she would encourage

me to continue reciting and beautifying

410

: 00:19:35

my voice and then she would read the

English And that's how I memorized,

411

: 00:19:39

and that's how I learned Surah Maryam.

412

: 00:19:41

And that was the one surah that

memorized the English and the

413

: 00:19:44

Arabic together, side by side.

414

: 00:19:46

Right, because the traditional mothers

said they don't teach you English,

415

: 00:19:49

so you're just reading the Arabic.

416

: 00:19:51

So, yeah, so I spent my five, six years,

and that was the motivation that I had.

417

: 00:19:55

My teacher told me that, you know,

Sayfullah, you finished the Qur'an

418

: 00:19:58

now, but you don't know what it means.

419

: 00:20:00

You don't know anything

beyond the recitation.

420

: 00:20:03

And I was like, yeah, that's a good point.

421

: 00:20:04

I memorized five, six years,

but I don't know what it means.

422

: 00:20:08

So that's when I took the step

to, you know, continue further on.

423

: 00:20:12

Okay.

424

: 00:20:12

So what did a

425

: 00:20:13

Imam Tariq: day look like for you there?

426

: 00:20:16

Sheikh Saifullah: And the Madrasa.

427

: 00:20:17

Yeah.

428

: 00:20:17

Yeah.

429

: 00:20:18

So Madrasa days would be very tough.

430

: 00:20:20

You know, some of the days would be

before Fajr, waking up before Fajr,

431

: 00:20:24

um, and sitting with my, my Quran in

the living room with my two siblings.

432

: 00:20:28

So my brother and my sister

also memorized the Quran.

433

: 00:20:30

I was actually the last one to finish.

434

: 00:20:32

I'm the oldest and I was

the last one to finish.

435

: 00:20:35

So kind of say something

about our dynamic.

436

: 00:20:38

But, you know, setting up,

memorizing, praying Fajr, doing

437

: 00:20:42

breakfast, and then going to Madrasa.

438

: 00:20:44

Sometimes 6.

439

: 00:20:45

30, 7 o'clock in the morning and,

um, being one of the first students

440

: 00:20:49

there and sometimes the door is not

even open and my parents are waiting

441

: 00:20:52

to, for the door to open and going

and then we had a full day from, you

442

: 00:20:56

know, 7 o'clock all the way into 4.

443

: 00:20:58

30.

444

: 00:20:58

That's when everyone was able to

go home, but because I struggled

445

: 00:21:02

as a student, sometimes I would

actually have to stay beyond.

446

: 00:21:05

So we had a full time and then they had

a part time class, which started at 4.

447

: 00:21:10

30 and went all the way on to 6, 6.

448

: 00:21:12

30.

449

: 00:21:13

And sometimes I would actually have to

say, if I didn't pass my lesson for the

450

: 00:21:16

day, um, I would actually have to stay.

451

: 00:21:19

So, um, I would stay until 6, 630.

452

: 00:21:22

So sometimes, you know, especially

in the Chicago winter, I'm getting

453

: 00:21:25

out in the dark and coming back home

when it's completely dark outside.

454

: 00:21:30

Imam Tariq: And that can mess with you.

455

: 00:21:31

It can, it can,

456

: 00:21:33

Sheikh Saifullah: it can.

457

: 00:21:33

And so, but yeah, that's

kind of how it was.

458

: 00:21:36

And then coming home, eating dinner and

then reading again until, um, 9, 930.

459

: 00:21:41

Until it was bedtime.

460

: 00:21:42

Imam Tariq: So you would just be

re reading and testing yourself?

461

: 00:21:46

There was a particular amount

that you had to memorize each day?

462

: 00:21:50

Correct.

463

: 00:21:50

Okay.

464

: 00:21:51

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, so, you know,

starting that starts with a couple of

465

: 00:21:54

lines, then it goes to a page, then

I think towards the end of my studies

466

: 00:21:57

when I was closer to the finishing,

um, I think I was doing about four to

467

: 00:22:01

five pages a day, which is almost a

quarter of a, um, juz of the Quran.

468

: 00:22:06

Imam Tariq: Hmm.

469

: 00:22:07

Hmm.

470

: 00:22:08

So you left from Rogers Park, and

where did you head to after that?

471

: 00:22:14

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, so, you

know, after finishing the Quran, I

472

: 00:22:17

did homeschooling, so I was able to

finish my studies a little earlier on,

473

: 00:22:21

um, in comparison to other students.

474

: 00:22:24

Because I kind of just took the

tests and the exams and kind

475

: 00:22:27

of whatever the curriculum my

parents had designated for myself.

476

: 00:22:30

And yeah, at the age of 15 I

went overseas, um, to Pakistan.

477

: 00:22:34

So, that's a, um, quite

interesting journey.

478

: 00:22:38

Got to go to the other homeland.

479

: 00:22:39

Yeah, I got to visit the

homeland, um, and, you know,

480

: 00:22:43

connect with my Pakistani roots.

481

: 00:22:45

What was that like?

482

: 00:22:47

Yeah, you know, SubhanAllah, anything

that I could kind of try to think

483

: 00:22:52

about how it's going to be, like how

it's going to look, how are the people

484

: 00:22:55

going to be, completely different.

485

: 00:22:58

And before that actually, so on

the way there, I stopped in Mecca.

486

: 00:23:01

So I got to do Umrah with my father,

my stepfather, and that was the first

487

: 00:23:06

time leaving the country like many of us

Americans, we like to stay, you know, in

488

: 00:23:11

the country at home, you know, so being

able to travel overseas So we traveled

489

: 00:23:16

overseas to Mecca and I remember seeing

the streets and you know The first thing

490

: 00:23:21

I remember as a kid is like, this is

really dirty Like just being thankful for

491

: 00:23:26

you know, the the country that we live in

and you know The cleanliness that we have

492

: 00:23:30

here That was a big culture shock for me.

493

: 00:23:33

Just the way, you know, people

just throw things on the ground

494

: 00:23:35

and stuff like that, which doesn't

really gel well with the religion.

495

: 00:23:39

I mean, our religion is about cleanliness.

496

: 00:23:42

And I didn't really see

that there growing up.

497

: 00:23:44

Um, but yeah, just going to a

completely different country.

498

: 00:23:48

I understood the language, but

I didn't speak the language.

499

: 00:23:51

So

500

: 00:23:51

Imam Tariq: you speak

501

: 00:23:51

Sheikh Saifullah: Urdu?

502

: 00:23:51

I do.

503

: 00:23:52

I do speak Urdu.

504

: 00:23:53

So I speak English, Arabic,

Urdu, and I understand Punjabi.

505

: 00:23:58

So, um, yeah.

506

: 00:23:59

Is it polyglot?

507

: 00:24:00

Yeah, somewhat.

508

: 00:24:02

So, I understood the language, but I

didn't speak the language going there.

509

: 00:24:05

Okay.

510

: 00:24:06

Which was actually another

hurdle I had to overcome.

511

: 00:24:10

Because, um, for those who have

visited Pakistan, um, English doesn't

512

: 00:24:14

really Worked that well there.

513

: 00:24:16

And first of all, I look like a foreigner.

514

: 00:24:18

Everyone can tell if I speak English.

515

: 00:24:21

It's a dead giveaway that you

know, this guy is from America

516

: 00:24:24

and for security concerns, it was

a big thing not speaking English.

517

: 00:24:30

So I was, you know, kind of forced

in a very short period Urdu.

518

: 00:24:38

Imam Tariq: That seems to be

the common refrain for anybody

519

: 00:24:41

that's looking to gain fluency.

520

: 00:24:43

You need to be immersed.

521

: 00:24:45

Yeah.

522

: 00:24:45

In that

523

: 00:24:45

Sheikh Saifullah: area.

524

: 00:24:46

You know, same thing with my Arabic.

525

: 00:24:48

The university I attended, um, it was

a full Arabic curriculum university.

526

: 00:24:52

So it was a full same immersion program.

527

: 00:24:55

So within six months, we

were all speaking Arabic.

528

: 00:24:58

And then from six months onwards,

the second semester of the

529

: 00:25:01

year, everything was in Arabic.

530

: 00:25:03

So we were told like you have six

months, that's all we're giving

531

: 00:25:07

you, that's all the, the room that

you have and you know, so yeah, we

532

: 00:25:11

were kind of just thrown into it.

533

: 00:25:13

I understood Urdu because of growing up

in Divan area and everyone speaking Urdu.

534

: 00:25:17

I was just, you know, not

comfortable with the accent and,

535

: 00:25:21

you know, pronouncing some things.

536

: 00:25:22

It's a completely different language.

537

: 00:25:24

So I just had to get over that hurdle

to be able to actually start speaking.

538

: 00:25:28

Imam Tariq: Yeah, yeah, there's

definitely a confidence issue.

539

: 00:25:31

Yeah.

540

: 00:25:32

That probably holds a lot of people back.

541

: 00:25:34

Sheikh Saifullah: Yes, 100%.

542

: 00:25:35

Imam Tariq: It's different if you're

around people who are also learning,

543

: 00:25:38

but being around native speakers, Yeah.

544

: 00:25:40

it's like, , I don't want

to make a fool of myself.

545

: 00:25:42

Sheikh Saifullah: Exactly, 100%.

546

: 00:25:43

And the funniest thing was like,

look, our English is not perfect.

547

: 00:25:47

Look at the mistakes that we make in

English, but we're still speaking it.

548

: 00:25:50

I'm like, yeah, they were making some

really, some really big mistakes for us,

549

: 00:25:55

but they were still speaking English.

550

: 00:25:57

Like, at least the

people I interacted with.

551

: 00:25:59

They had a sense of wanting to try to

communicate with me and try to talk to me.

552

: 00:26:03

So that kind of gave me a confidence,

uh, motivational boost to kind of say,

553

: 00:26:08

you know what, they're speaking English.

554

: 00:26:09

Why can't I speak Urdu?

555

: 00:26:10

And just let it go from there.

556

: 00:26:12

Imam Tariq: Well, you've sort of

touched on this and what I'm thinking

557

: 00:26:15

about is I'm always looking for

threads and I feel like One of them

558

: 00:26:19

that I see is adaptability, right?

559

: 00:26:21

It's being willing to take on

new circumstances and challenges.

560

: 00:26:27

And the other is, is fearlessness.

561

: 00:26:30

Would you agree?

562

: 00:26:32

Sheikh Saifullah: Uh, to some what I

would say, you know, maybe, um, With

563

: 00:26:36

room to improve, a young Saifullah for

sure, but um yeah for sure I think a

564

: 00:26:41

lot of that comes back to my mom and

her mentally preparing me to be able

565

: 00:26:45

to go into this environment and that

motivational boost you know that you get

566

: 00:26:49

from the motherly love that you know you

can do this and you just put your whatever

567

: 00:26:53

you put your mind to you can do it.

568

: 00:26:55

It's very difficult to leave your home.

569

: 00:26:57

Leave your country, leave all the

amenities that we have here in America

570

: 00:27:01

to go to a third world country.

571

: 00:27:03

When I went there, the first thing

people told me were like, people

572

: 00:27:06

dream their entire life to go from

here, from Pakistan, to go to the U.

573

: 00:27:11

S.

574

: 00:27:11

to study.

575

: 00:27:12

They do whatever they can,

but you're doing the opposite.

576

: 00:27:15

You're leaving America and coming here.

577

: 00:27:17

So they could not wrap

their mind around that.

578

: 00:27:19

Like, why is this white kid coming here?

579

: 00:27:22

But I went there with a goal set in my

mind that I have to I have to study, I

580

: 00:27:26

have to gain the knowledge, and then I

want to come back and serve my community.

581

: 00:27:31

Why did you want to do that?

582

: 00:27:34

Yeah, that's a very good question.

583

: 00:27:36

I think, um,

584

: 00:27:39

Imam Tariq: And before you go any

further, let me give a little bit

585

: 00:27:41

more context to that question.

586

: 00:27:44

Why did you make that

decision at such a young age?

587

: 00:27:50

The the allure for you.

588

: 00:27:51

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah To be

100 percent honest no filters.

589

: 00:27:56

A lot of it was my father

telling me I have to go

590

: 00:28:02

Wanted to go to So, I, I love Egypt.

591

: 00:28:06

I, I got to go to Egypt last year for

the first time and it was amazing.

592

: 00:28:11

Really?

593

: 00:28:11

Everything, just being there,

walking the streets, the history

594

: 00:28:15

that's attached to Egypt.

595

: 00:28:17

From the Islamic perspective and,

you know, the ancient Egypt as well.

596

: 00:28:21

I'm into like Yu Gi Oh as a kid

and, you know, all the pharaohs

597

: 00:28:24

and all that kind of stuff.

598

: 00:28:26

So, it was a dream of mine to go

there, but I really wanted to study

599

: 00:28:29

in Al Azhar, you know, growing up.

600

: 00:28:32

I saw a couple of Masha'ikh, um, in the U.

601

: 00:28:35

S.

602

: 00:28:35

who came from Egypt, specifically Imam

Suhaib Webb and other scholars who

603

: 00:28:40

came back from there, and I said, you

know, that's the place I want to go.

604

: 00:28:43

It's still in my mind when you look at

Islamic institutions, that's like the

605

: 00:28:46

Harvard or Yale of the Muslim world.

606

: 00:28:49

So, but that time in 2011 12

situations, political situations

607

: 00:28:54

were not too good there, so my

father was like, you can't go there.

608

: 00:28:58

So he gave me three options.

609

: 00:28:59

He gave me the option

of New York or Buffalo.

610

: 00:29:02

He gave me, um, Darun Beri, that's in,

um, the UK, or, um, to go to Pakistan.

611

: 00:29:09

And, um, you know, the, the

biggest, um, pro that I saw going to

612

: 00:29:14

Pakistan was the Arabic curriculum.

613

: 00:29:16

You know, I said, I want to learn Arabic.

614

: 00:29:17

I want to connect with the Quran.

615

: 00:29:19

And they had the strongest

curriculum for Arabic.

616

: 00:29:22

So that was one of the main reasons.

617

: 00:29:24

But for me, it started with

motivation from my parents.

618

: 00:29:27

You know, you have to do this.

619

: 00:29:29

And then as I started doing it, I

started finding myself loving studying

620

: 00:29:34

the Quran, loving like reading

Fatiha and knowing what it means,

621

: 00:29:38

like reading a verse and not having

to open a translation of the Quran.

622

: 00:29:42

So that was one thing.

623

: 00:29:44

Second thing was, you know, just

being able to actually really believe

624

: 00:29:49

in what I, what I believe, right?

625

: 00:29:51

If that makes sense, like being a Muslim,

like, cause I was kind of, Pushed into

626

: 00:29:55

Islam as a young kid Um, and memorizing

the Qur'an That was kind of pushed on us

627

: 00:30:02

as well But now at this point I got to

learn Islam And as I was like relearning

628

: 00:30:07

Islam For the first time almost Um, from

the basics and going up and advancing

629

: 00:30:12

I started just loving it more and more

I found myself, um, you know Reading

630

: 00:30:17

more, you know, really diving into the

books And, uh, I just found myself, um,

631

: 00:30:22

starting to Um, and I think it's important

for us to develop this attachment

632

: 00:30:25

with, um, learning and with Islam.

633

: 00:30:29

Imam Tariq: Now, we're both in the

Doctor of Ministry program here at the

634

: 00:30:33

Anislamic Graduate School, but you have

continued to pursue education outside of

635

: 00:30:39

this institution and other institutions.

636

: 00:30:42

What is your driving force for the

acquisition of all of this knowledge?

637

: 00:30:49

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, I just feel,

um You know, looking at the Islamic

638

: 00:30:55

tradition, it's like a sea of knowledge.

639

: 00:30:58

Um, and the Quran, as our teachers

would say, It's a fountain

640

: 00:31:04

that does not stop giving.

641

: 00:31:05

And I just find myself, as I

continue to study and as I continue

642

: 00:31:10

to walk on this path, I just, you

know, my teacher would tell us

643

: 00:31:14

that, You know what you don't know.

644

: 00:31:17

You know what you don't know.

645

: 00:31:19

I've heard

646

: 00:31:19

Imam Tariq: it the opposite.

647

: 00:31:20

I've heard you don't

know what you don't know.

648

: 00:31:22

Sheikh Saifullah: Oh yeah, no,

you know what you don't know.

649

: 00:31:23

You know what you don't know.

650

: 00:31:24

When you are knowledgeable, right, and you

find yourself like when you have studied

651

: 00:31:29

a little bit, you understand that what I

know in comparison to what is out there is

652

: 00:31:34

equal to almost like a drop from an ocean.

653

: 00:31:38

I find myself more motivated every

single time that I take a class and, you

654

: 00:31:42

know, from the time that I graduated,

then I went from, you know, my B.

655

: 00:31:46

A.

656

: 00:31:46

program, uh, came back to the U.

657

: 00:31:48

S.

658

: 00:31:48

and I joined Bayan and I did my M.

659

: 00:31:50

Div.

660

: 00:31:50

And then from my M.

661

: 00:31:51

Div.

662

: 00:31:51

I went to, to do an Iftar

program, which is a training,

663

: 00:31:55

traditional training to give fatwa.

664

: 00:31:57

For Mufti.

665

: 00:31:57

To become Mufti.

666

: 00:31:58

Yeah.

667

: 00:31:59

So I started that program and then.

668

: 00:32:01

I was doing that, but then I

said, you know what, I can't stop

669

: 00:32:03

doing the academic side as well.

670

: 00:32:05

So then I found myself back at Vayan

studying more, and now I'm doing them

671

: 00:32:09

both, um, simultaneously side by side.

672

: 00:32:12

The Iftar program and the Iftar training.

673

: 00:32:14

I took a little break to do the doctoral

research and the dissertation, but

674

: 00:32:19

I find myself, um, Kind of drawn in

both sides, you know, the traditional

675

: 00:32:24

studying, which I love picking up books

and reading what scholars have written

676

: 00:32:28

and what they're talking about, but

also the context that we live in and,

677

: 00:32:32

you know, having the Western kind of

studies, uh, and the tools that Bayan

678

: 00:32:36

give us the more practical side of things.

679

: 00:32:38

So I find them, um, both Pairing

beautifully together in my own life.

680

: 00:32:42

And that's why I've, I feel like I've

been motivated to continue studying.

681

: 00:32:46

Uh, I don't know how many years it's been.

682

: 00:32:47

I don't think I've had any breaks

since I started memorizing the Quran.

683

: 00:32:51

So I'm looking forward

to, yeah, no, not really.

684

: 00:32:54

Imam Tariq: Wow.

685

: 00:32:55

Now let me see.

686

: 00:32:56

So we're a class of, for the MDiv,

we're a class of: 2022

687

: 00:33:02

that started what, 2019, 2019.

688

: 00:33:05

Yep.

689

: 00:33:05

So that's how many years?

690

: 00:33:07

That's six years.

691

: 00:33:09

All right, most folks look at you and

really see like this prodigy right now,

692

: 00:33:17

it goes away the older you get, right?

693

: 00:33:21

But for this period of time,

right, you've, you've done a

694

: 00:33:24

lot at a very young age, right?

695

: 00:33:26

At a very young age, if you don't

mind me asking, how old are you now?

696

: 00:33:29

I'm 27.

697

: 00:33:30

27.

698

: 00:33:30

So you're not as young.

699

: 00:33:31

You were, so you were 21.

700

: 00:33:34

Yep.

701

: 00:33:34

When we first met.

702

: 00:33:35

I was.

703

: 00:33:36

Yeah, I was thinking, man, this,

this brother is, this brother

704

: 00:33:39

is, he is, he is something else.

705

: 00:33:41

He is just, you know, he's

already out here working, right?

706

: 00:33:45

Uh, but looking back just in six years.

707

: 00:33:48

From your 21 year old self to

your 27 year old self, what are

708

: 00:33:52

some of the changes or some of the

ways that you've grown since then?

709

: 00:33:57

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, that's,

um, subhanAllah, it's, it's crazy.

710

: 00:34:01

You'd have to ask my wife.

711

: 00:34:03

Oh really?

712

: 00:34:04

I think she can better speak on that, but

no, it's just beautiful to kind of see,

713

: 00:34:09

How we are molded, you know, um, in these

very formative years of our life, I think.

714

: 00:34:16

I joined Bayan at a very crucial time.

715

: 00:34:18

I was an imam, um, I just

started my imam career path.

716

: 00:34:23

Uh, a year or two before that, um, and

from there I was actually, when I got

717

: 00:34:28

accepted to Bayan, I was already teaching

in an Islamic school, I was teaching

718

: 00:34:31

in one of the biggest Islamic schools.

719

: 00:34:33

Shout out to Imam Jihad Turk, uh, that's,

his family, his father, rahmatullahi

720

: 00:34:39

alayhi ma'allah, have, um, blessing,

peace and blessing on him that, you

721

: 00:34:42

know, he was part of that community.

722

: 00:34:43

So that's how I got to know Imam Jihad.

723

: 00:34:45

Oh really?

724

: 00:34:46

Okay.

725

: 00:34:46

Um, so, um, being at that school.

726

: 00:34:49

That was the first interaction we

had, but yeah, it was one of the

727

: 00:34:52

biggest Islamic schools, um, from

Multistorey all the way to 12th grade.

728

: 00:34:57

Um, it was a college prep school as well.

729

: 00:35:00

So students would graduate with, um,

you know, associate degrees in sciences.

730

: 00:35:05

So I got a job as a teacher for sacred

sciences and being the imam of the school.

731

: 00:35:10

And that was very, very, um, very

I would say important for me in my

732

: 00:35:17

development, it was a different setting.

733

: 00:35:19

You know, usually you're

in the mosque setting.

734

: 00:35:21

Mm-hmm . You giving and teaching to

going to the school setting where,

735

: 00:35:25

you know, you're with all these kids.

736

: 00:35:26

And I, I started teaching

third, fourth grade and I went

737

: 00:35:29

all the way to 12th grade.

738

: 00:35:30

And between me and the , the, the kids

in the, in eight and 12th grade were like

739

: 00:35:35

a year or two difference . So it, it was

mind blowing to like be able, but I, I.

740

: 00:35:41

You know, being in that environment

and seeing the difficulties that

741

: 00:35:44

young youth face growing up in the U.

742

: 00:35:47

S.

743

: 00:35:47

and, you know, trying to, you know, um,

I would say grapple with their identity,

744

: 00:35:52

talking about identity, being American,

Pakistani, American, Palestinian,

745

: 00:35:57

American, uh, let's say, Egyptian.

746

: 00:36:00

Kind of all these multiple,

because they're born here and their

747

: 00:36:02

parents came from other countries.

748

: 00:36:04

Right.

749

: 00:36:05

So I just found so many gaps in, you know,

my knowledge and how I could support.

750

: 00:36:10

So coming to Bayan, it couldn't

have been a more perfect time.

751

: 00:36:14

Um, to be able to get the tools

that Bayan offered us, you know,

752

: 00:36:17

from the different classes.

753

: 00:36:17

So like counseling Muslim with Dr.

754

: 00:36:19

Hamada, um, and his wife, um, Dr.

755

: 00:36:22

Zarina, right?

756

: 00:36:24

To, I, I did classes on, you

know, facilitating Islamic rituals

757

: 00:36:28

with, um, Sheikh Fuad, right?

758

: 00:36:31

And, um, all the different classes

that we had throughout our journey

759

: 00:36:35

in the Imdiv and now going into

the doctoral program just equipped.

760

: 00:36:39

Me, myself, with the tools that I

needed, and I felt like now I'm at a

761

: 00:36:42

point that Alhamdulillah, I look back

at it and I said SubhanAllah, it's

762

: 00:36:46

been, it doesn't feel like six years.

763

: 00:36:48

You say six years, but I

feel like I just came to CTS.

764

: 00:36:51

Right.

765

: 00:36:51

Just like last week.

766

: 00:36:53

But seeing the growth in myself as

well, and you know, I think being

767

: 00:36:56

more assertive as a American imam,

scholar, and serving our community.

768

: 00:37:03

And having the tools that

I need to actually serve my

769

: 00:37:06

community in a better way.

770

: 00:37:07

Not just the Muslim community, but

the entire Minnesota community.

771

: 00:37:11

I see myself as a leader, not just

for, you know, my mosque, but,

772

: 00:37:15

you know, the communities I'm very

involved with interfaith work.

773

: 00:37:18

I just came back from Jordan, um, where

we went and visited refugees camps, um,

774

: 00:37:24

Syrian and Palestinian refugee camps,

and being able to go and serve humanity.

775

: 00:37:28

Yeah.

776

: 00:37:28

Um, I just look at it

and I say, Alhamdulillah.

777

: 00:37:32

You know, it just comes to mind the

du'a of the Prophets in the Qur'an

778

: 00:37:38

where he says, O Allah, give me the

ability to continue to be thankful

779

: 00:37:44

for the blessings that you have

given me and upon my parents, huh?

780

: 00:37:48

And, um, the ability just to be in

this place I, I look at as a great, um,

781

: 00:37:52

trust and an amana that I ask Allah to

continue to give me is that fastness

782

: 00:37:56

to be able to continue to serve.

783

: 00:37:58

Imam Tariq: Ameen.

784

: 00:37:59

Ameen.

785

: 00:38:00

So what is your, and I know that

the classic Muslim answer, if you

786

: 00:38:05

ask any Muslim, you know, what

is your example of leadership?

787

: 00:38:08

They're going to say prophet Muhammad.

788

: 00:38:09

So I don't want you to

give me the classic answer.

789

: 00:38:13

What is leadership to you and

how do you feel you contribute

790

: 00:38:21

to its positive expression?

791

: 00:38:25

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, you kind of

took that, the servant leadership option

792

: 00:38:29

out of the options, but you know, after

doing our leadership courses and we're

793

: 00:38:35

in the doctorate of leadership, you

know, looking at all these different

794

: 00:38:40

models, I kind of find myself as a mix

of all of them, but if I had to lean

795

: 00:38:44

into one a little bit more, I think I'm

more inclined towards transformative.

796

: 00:38:50

I find it as a blessing to

be in this place, right?

797

: 00:38:52

A place to serve God's creation, right?

798

: 00:38:56

Um, you know, and I find it

as, you know, A blessing.

799

: 00:39:00

That's why the Hadi of the prophet

comes to my mind, um, where he

800

: 00:39:04

says, man, whoever God wishes,

good for you, . He gives them the

801

: 00:39:10

understanding of the religion, right?

802

: 00:39:12

And that leader, that understanding is

completely paired with leadership, right?

803

: 00:39:16

It's the action, right?

804

: 00:39:18

How do you put what you've

learned into action?

805

: 00:39:20

Right?

806

: 00:39:21

Because we're called to

be active Muslims, right?

807

: 00:39:25

Um, we're called to actually serve,

not just to keep it to ourselves.

808

: 00:39:29

But we were told that actually some

nations were destroyed in the past

809

: 00:39:32

because, you know, they learned

Islam, they held on to themselves,

810

: 00:39:35

and they didn't give it to others.

811

: 00:39:36

They didn't actually

apply that in their lives.

812

: 00:39:39

So, um, being able to apply that and

live leadership and see the changes that

813

: 00:39:43

it brings in people's life and, and the

communities around us, you know, seeing

814

: 00:39:47

the bridges that we're able to bring

and make when we have, you know, for

815

: 00:39:51

example, Muslim Christian dialogue, right?

816

: 00:39:54

You know, I was just part of the

MLK breakfast in Minnesota where

817

: 00:39:58

they brought an imam, a pastor and

a rabbi, um, that was hosted by

818

: 00:40:03

General Mills, and there's like 4, 000

people that watch the pre recording

819

: 00:40:07

and the recording every single year.

820

: 00:40:09

And we kind of talked about, you

know, the, the, the gift that God

821

: 00:40:13

has given us to be able to serve

the communities that we serve, and

822

: 00:40:16

the way that's all interconnected,

um, in terms of all the, the service

823

: 00:40:21

actually leads you back to God, right?

824

: 00:40:23

Because the best of people, as the

Prophet saw some says, All right.

825

: 00:40:27

The best of people are those who

benefit, um, society as much as possible.

826

: 00:40:32

So I, that's how kind of, I think

hopefully that answers the question.

827

: 00:40:35

Imam Tariq: No, I think that's great.

828

: 00:40:37

Um, leadership being an expression

of utility, the most useful,

829

: 00:40:41

that is also a mark of value.

830

: 00:40:44

Give us a little insight into the Muslim

community or communities in Minnesota.

831

: 00:40:50

What's it like?

832

: 00:40:51

Sheikh Saifullah: You know,

it's a very diverse community.

833

: 00:40:52

It's a growing Muslim community.

834

: 00:40:55

We have about 90 something

mosques all in, uh, in Minnesota.

835

: 00:40:59

Wow.

836

: 00:41:00

Wow.

837

: 00:41:00

But in the Twin Cities, which is St.

838

: 00:41:02

Paul and Minneapolis and the

suburbs surrounding them,

839

: 00:41:05

we have about 65 mosques.

840

: 00:41:07

Okay.

841

: 00:41:07

Sheikh Saifullah: Um, so very diverse

community, um, you know, people from

842

: 00:41:11

all parts of the world and it's a

continued growing community for people

843

: 00:41:15

who want to actually bring their family.

844

: 00:41:17

It's very family oriented.

845

: 00:41:18

So a lot of Young families move

there to actually establish

846

: 00:41:22

themself and start to, you know,

put down roots to raise families.

847

: 00:41:26

Imam Tariq: So do you feel like, uh,

is Minnesota, is it home now, or is

848

: 00:41:31

that, I might be getting you in trouble.

849

: 00:41:34

I

850

: 00:41:35

Sheikh Saifullah: hope not.

851

: 00:41:37

No, I find myself now after all of these

years, you know, I started my journey,

852

: 00:41:42

my Imam journey in Atlanta, Georgia.

853

: 00:41:44

That was my first.

854

: 00:41:47

That's how I know Imam Suleyman

Hamid, shout out to Imam Suleyman, our

855

: 00:41:50

classmate, um, that's where I met him.

856

: 00:41:53

That's where I heard about Bayan

actually for the first time, because

857

: 00:41:55

he was a student at Claremont School

of Theology where Bayan was there.

858

: 00:41:59

So I looked up to him, you know,

Mashallah, great Imam serving community.

859

: 00:42:03

So and I was the Imam of Medina

Institute in Duluth, Georgia.

860

: 00:42:06

So we had that relationship,

but you know, from there I went.

861

: 00:42:10

to Arkansas.

862

: 00:42:11

I went to Arizona, moved back

to Wisconsin for some time and

863

: 00:42:15

then ended up in Minnesota.

864

: 00:42:17

I never thought for a second

that I would stay in Minnesota.

865

: 00:42:22

It was kind of just like a stepping stool.

866

: 00:42:24

You know, you have that, I'm here,

but I really want to get here.

867

: 00:42:27

Right.

868

: 00:42:27

Right.

869

: 00:42:28

So don't unpack the bags.

870

: 00:42:31

Go too deep.

871

: 00:42:32

But you know, I looked at it, I was

like, who's going to be in Minnesota?

872

: 00:42:36

And I had job offers at the

time from Austin, Texas,

873

: 00:42:41

Florida, other parts of the U.

874

: 00:42:43

S.

875

: 00:42:44

So, I kind of moved back for my wife.

876

: 00:42:47

She was in mid school at that time.

877

: 00:42:49

She was an undergrad and she was

going to, applying to mid school.

878

: 00:42:53

For me, Minnesota was

never the end goal, right?

879

: 00:42:57

But when I met, um, another shadow, Ustad

Tamim Saeedi, he's also a classmate.

880

: 00:43:02

Um, he's one of the founders of our

mosque, and he's also a balance member.

881

: 00:43:05

Get out of here.

882

: 00:43:05

Yeah.

883

: 00:43:05

Didn't know that.

884

: 00:43:06

Yeah, so we actually met, and the,

how it actually unfolded was we

885

: 00:43:10

were in class, we were in the Dr.

886

: 00:43:12

Jihad Brown's class for

leadership and spirituality.

887

: 00:43:16

And I mentioned this, the case study

that I came up with, um, where the

888

: 00:43:20

mosque that I was at at that time,

I'm not going to say the name.

889

: 00:43:23

I don't want to give them any hate.

890

: 00:43:25

I gave a khutbah on domestic violence.

891

: 00:43:26

It was Domestic Violence

Awareness Month, October.

892

: 00:43:29

Right.

893

: 00:43:29

And the board came back to me and said,

you have to retract your statements.

894

: 00:43:34

Imam Tariq: Really?

895

: 00:43:35

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

896

: 00:43:35

And I said, I'm not going to.

897

: 00:43:37

I came to class that, that was the

first class we had and the second

898

: 00:43:41

class I think we had in person.

899

: 00:43:42

And that's where I met Tamim and we

were in the same class and I was talking

900

: 00:43:45

about the issues I was facing with the

board and how they want me to retract

901

: 00:43:49

my statements on domestic violence.

902

: 00:43:51

And I said, I can't do that.

903

: 00:43:52

Like,

904

: 00:43:53

Sheikh Saifullah: you know,

it's an issue and I'm going

905

: 00:43:54

to continue talking about it.

906

: 00:43:56

And that's when he was like, why

don't you come visit Minnesota?

907

: 00:43:59

And I said, uh, I was nice.

908

: 00:44:02

You know how we always say

inshallah, you know, that

909

: 00:44:04

inshallah, that means, who knows.

910

: 00:44:07

But I said, inshallah.

911

: 00:44:08

He was like, no, no, no, come.

912

: 00:44:09

So he followed up.

913

: 00:44:10

And, um, I remember telling my

wife I was in Wisconsin that time.

914

: 00:44:13

I was like, I'm not

going to go to Minnesota.

915

: 00:44:15

And she was like, just go for three days.

916

: 00:44:17

It was like two or three

days, like, interview process.

917

: 00:44:20

Just go see the community.

918

: 00:44:22

At least, you know, you gave your word.

919

: 00:44:24

Which, Islamically, you

should fulfill your word.

920

: 00:44:26

And I was like, of

course, that makes sense.

921

: 00:44:28

So I'm going to do it.

922

: 00:44:29

It was during winter

time in December as well.

923

: 00:44:32

So I go there and I found

Minnesota to be extremely cold.

924

: 00:44:36

Um, I stepped outside of the

hotel and I slipped on ice.

925

: 00:44:41

I slipped on ice right when I left.

926

: 00:44:43

Yeah.

927

: 00:44:43

Um, so it was like, like inches thick ice.

928

: 00:44:46

And Minnesota, right now we're

like negative 30, 30 yesterday.

929

: 00:44:50

So it's,

930

: 00:44:51

Imam Tariq: it's pretty

balmy here in Chicago.

931

: 00:44:52

Yeah.

932

: 00:44:53

Compared comparatively.

933

: 00:44:54

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

934

: 00:44:54

It's way colder.

935

: 00:44:56

And so I was like, I'm

not gonna stay here.

936

: 00:44:58

There's no way.

937

: 00:44:59

But then when I met the community, I saw.

938

: 00:45:01

The warmness of the

hearts of the community.

939

: 00:45:03

I was like, I can't, I

can't go anywhere else.

940

: 00:45:06

So, and

941

: 00:45:06

Sheikh Saifullah: the board, they

gave me two days to accept the offer.

942

: 00:45:09

They said this offer is

only valid for two days.

943

: 00:45:12

So you have to say yes or no.

944

: 00:45:14

But now I think, looking back at it, I

had an opportunity last year to leave.

945

: 00:45:18

And go to Dallas, which is like the hub

of the Muslim world, of Muslim America.

946

: 00:45:23

It's like all, all kind

of, um, centered in Dallas.

947

: 00:45:27

Yeah.

948

: 00:45:27

Um, but, you know, looking back now,

I think, I, I find myself, Every

949

: 00:45:34

single time I want to leave Minnesota,

something just pulls me back.

950

: 00:45:37

And I, I can't leave Minnesota now, so.

951

: 00:45:40

All right.

952

: 00:45:41

Hopefully my wife doesn't

get mad about Minnesota.

953

: 00:45:44

I pray Inshallah it's

going to be home for us.

954

: 00:45:46

Imam Tariq: Inshallah.

955

: 00:45:47

Inshallah.

956

: 00:45:47

That's beautiful.

957

: 00:45:49

Now, I am intentionally not being

specific with this question.

958

: 00:45:54

What are some of the things that you

feel are important for American Muslims

959

: 00:45:59

at this particular time, uh, in this

climate, this social and political

960

: 00:46:03

climate that we find ourselves in?

961

: 00:46:07

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah,

962

: 00:46:07

Imam Tariq: I, I

963

: 00:46:08

Sheikh Saifullah: think, you know,

you're leaving very wide, really open.

964

: 00:46:12

So, I think this is prime time for

Muslims, to be honest, in the West.

965

: 00:46:17

Mm hmm.

966

: 00:46:17

I think Um, especially in the last

couple of years, um, we have been able

967

: 00:46:24

to shape the narrative, um, what it

means to be American Muslims, positive

968

: 00:46:30

contributors to society, not this fake

image that the media and, you know,

969

: 00:46:36

what everyone wants to portray, we're

not all terrorists, you know, we're not

970

: 00:46:39

trying to do any of that kind of stuff.

971

: 00:46:41

And especially with Gaza now, right,

and what's going on in Palestine.

972

: 00:46:46

We have a lot of eyes on us

when it comes to people looking

973

: 00:46:49

out, um, from outward, inward.

974

: 00:46:52

And I think so, this is time for us to

really show what it means to be Muslims.

975

: 00:46:57

I mean, Alhamdulillah, we are very blessed

in Minnesota to have Muslims that serve on

976

: 00:47:03

many different aspects of the government.

977

: 00:47:06

You know, from, you know, Senators, to

Governors, to Attorney Generals, you know.

978

: 00:47:11

Um, so we have a lot

of that, Alhamdulillah.

979

: 00:47:14

And I think that needs to continue, too.

980

: 00:47:15

move forward.

981

: 00:47:16

I think so.

982

: 00:47:17

We need to break this bubble

that we are in, right?

983

: 00:47:21

Um, I no longer call back home, back home.

984

: 00:47:23

This is my home.

985

: 00:47:25

I don't have a back home to be honest.

986

: 00:47:27

Imam Tariq: That's a huge,

huge statement, a huge shift.

987

: 00:47:30

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

988

: 00:47:31

Imam Tariq: Coming from being a student

of Imam Warith Muhammad, he emphasized our

989

: 00:47:38

collective responsibility for the progress

of this nation and that we are tied to it.

990

: 00:47:46

Now, you know, some folks may think

that the grass is greener somewhere

991

: 00:47:51

else, but, um, I don't agree with that.

992

: 00:47:54

I believe that where Allah has placed

us in this particular place and

993

: 00:47:59

time to execute our responsibilities

of Khalifa of stewardship.

994

: 00:48:04

So, uh, it's just, it's refreshing to hear

that because unfortunately I hear people.

995

: 00:48:13

Talking about why I'm getting out of

here, and, you know, and I'm not hating

996

: 00:48:16

on dual citizenship folks, are you

familiar with, uh, David Goggins, you

997

: 00:48:20

know, he's, he's this, um, uh, seal,

, like motivational speaker, you know,

998

: 00:48:25

he's got this, uh, saying they were going

through training and they're desperately

999

: 00:48:31

tired, they haven't slept and they've

been doing a bunch of physical activity.

: 1000

00:48:35,754 --> 00:48:41,024

And everybody's ready to fall out and

he jumps up and he picks up this, this

: 1001

00:48:41,064 --> 00:48:42,844

boat that, you know, they have to carry.

: 1002

00:48:42,844 --> 00:48:45,964

And he, he started screaming,

who's going to carry the boats?

: 1003

00:48:46,004 --> 00:48:47,034

Who's going to carry the boats?

: 1004

00:48:47,064 --> 00:48:50,084

It's like, it doesn't matter if you're

tired, if you're thirsty, if you're

: 1005

00:48:50,084 --> 00:48:55,164

hungry, if you're frustrated, if we

don't carry it, who's going to carry it?

: 1006

00:48:55,824 --> 00:48:56,194

So

: 1007

00:48:57,009 --> 00:48:57,789

That's my, that's, that's.

: 1008

00:48:57,809 --> 00:48:59,209

Sheikh Saifullah: No,

Mashallah, beautiful.

: 1009

00:48:59,509 --> 00:49:03,149

A lot of times I think when it comes

to the immigrant community, those who

: 1010

00:49:03,149 --> 00:49:08,719

have left their homes, I mean, I'm sure

there is a longing to go back, right?

: 1011

00:49:08,979 --> 00:49:11,019

I just visited, um, Amman.

: 1012

00:49:11,019 --> 00:49:14,629

I keep going back to that, but,

you know, seeing the refugees there

: 1013

00:49:14,629 --> 00:49:16,759

in the situation, dire situation.

: 1014

00:49:17,309 --> 00:49:21,819

Um, story, we met, we went to this home,

one of the refugee camps, the biggest

: 1015

00:49:21,819 --> 00:49:23,349

refugee camp in the world, one of them.

: 1016

00:49:24,204 --> 00:49:27,864

And two Palestinian, um, like, aunties.

: 1017

00:49:27,944 --> 00:49:31,474

They're like, almost grandmother

age, almost 70 years old,

: 1018

00:49:31,684 --> 00:49:32,984

losing their eyesight.

: 1019

00:49:33,534 --> 00:49:35,744

Um, and you can just see the situation.

: 1020

00:49:35,744 --> 00:49:37,084

So the entire family is gone.

: 1021

00:49:37,104 --> 00:49:39,624

Everyone has either been

killed or passed away.

: 1022

00:49:40,184 --> 00:49:42,184

And they're just two

sisters by themselves now.

: 1023

00:49:42,694 --> 00:49:47,374

And just, you know, You know, we

came, I went with a, um, humanitarian

: 1024

00:49:47,384 --> 00:49:51,454

organization and we were visiting them,

fighting, asking what you need, they

: 1025

00:49:51,455 --> 00:49:54,624

were like, we only speak to Allah,

we don't need anything from people.

: 1026

00:49:54,744 --> 00:49:55,074

Wow.

: 1027

00:49:55,214 --> 00:49:58,644

Sheikh Saifullah: And, and the

first thing we said from America,

: 1028

00:49:58,644 --> 00:50:01,414

and they didn't really like the

fact that we were from America.

: 1029

00:50:01,814 --> 00:50:01,994

Yeah.

: 1030

00:50:02,024 --> 00:50:04,144

Sheikh Saifullah: But, um, just

seeing their resilience and we

: 1031

00:50:04,144 --> 00:50:04,864

asked them, what do you want?

: 1032

00:50:04,864 --> 00:50:05,849

They were like, we want

to go back to Iraq.

: 1033

00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:07,859

Philistine, we go back to our country.

: 1034

00:50:07,864 --> 00:50:08,134

Yeah.

: 1035

00:50:08,219 --> 00:50:09,539

And I, I find that beautiful.

: 1036

00:50:09,659 --> 00:50:10,769

'cause that's their land.

: 1037

00:50:10,769 --> 00:50:11,099

Right.

: 1038

00:50:11,339 --> 00:50:12,389

They, they have a Right.

: 1039

00:50:12,629 --> 00:50:16,229

But someone like myself, who

I was born in this country,

: 1040

00:50:16,234 --> 00:50:16,534

Imam Tariq: right,

: 1041

00:50:16,919 --> 00:50:17,249

Sheikh Saifullah: right.

: 1042

00:50:17,369 --> 00:50:20,819

I find it every single time I

use my bull passport to leave

: 1043

00:50:20,819 --> 00:50:22,889

the country and I come back.

: 1044

00:50:22,979 --> 00:50:26,069

I feel the burden on the

back of my shoulders that

: 1045

00:50:26,369 --> 00:50:29,009

we need to work together to.

: 1046

00:50:29,394 --> 00:50:31,914

Make this country a better country, right?

: 1047

00:50:31,964 --> 00:50:32,854

I love the country.

: 1048

00:50:32,884 --> 00:50:36,134

I mean The blessings that I

have but there's a lot of work

: 1049

00:50:36,134 --> 00:50:37,134

that still needs to be done

: 1050

00:50:37,584 --> 00:50:37,914

right,

: 1051

00:50:38,084 --> 00:50:41,384

Sheikh Saifullah: and we need to

continue working towards a More

: 1052

00:50:41,414 --> 00:50:43,154

prosperous future for all of us.

: 1053

00:50:43,264 --> 00:50:43,544

Yeah

: 1054

00:50:43,954 --> 00:50:44,564

Sheikh Saifullah: combined.

: 1055

00:50:44,804 --> 00:50:49,944

I find you know That there's

nothing that happens by coincidence.

: 1056

00:50:49,945 --> 00:50:50,334

Mm

: 1057

00:50:50,334 --> 00:50:50,684

hmm,

: 1058

00:50:51,074 --> 00:50:51,334

Sheikh Saifullah: right?

: 1059

00:50:51,454 --> 00:50:56,164

It's not coincidentally that we have

been sent here to this country And

: 1060

00:50:56,174 --> 00:50:59,744

I'm serving as a imam or, you know,

imam or residence scholar here in this

: 1061

00:50:59,744 --> 00:51:01,384

country, but we're here for a purpose.

: 1062

00:51:01,404 --> 00:51:01,654

Sure.

: 1063

00:51:01,904 --> 00:51:02,174

Right?

: 1064

00:51:02,184 --> 00:51:04,354

And we have to fulfill that purpose.

: 1065

00:51:04,384 --> 00:51:07,534

That's what motivates me as well for

leadership as well, to, you know,

: 1066

00:51:07,694 --> 00:51:10,314

work towards a more prosperous future.

: 1067

00:51:11,204 --> 00:51:14,604

Imam Tariq: I asked this question

to a previous guest, and I

: 1068

00:51:14,604 --> 00:51:16,054

want to pose it to you as well.

: 1069

00:51:16,464 --> 00:51:19,284

When we're told in the Quran

that Allah has brought us out for

: 1070

00:51:19,284 --> 00:51:21,894

the benefit of humanity, right?

: 1071

00:51:21,914 --> 00:51:22,644

Not for.

: 1072

00:51:23,224 --> 00:51:28,724

For our selfish desires as a model,

as an aid, as a guide for humanity,

: 1073

00:51:30,144 --> 00:51:32,934

how do you see your leadership?

: 1074

00:51:32,954 --> 00:51:37,454

How do you see your pursuits

aiming towards that goal?

: 1075

00:51:38,244 --> 00:51:43,564

What would you aspire to see to be

the end result that benefits not just

: 1076

00:51:43,564 --> 00:51:45,954

your community, but benefits humanity?

: 1077

00:51:47,624 --> 00:51:51,164

Sheikh Saifullah: I just I pray

for a day where we can start to.

: 1078

00:51:51,314 --> 00:51:57,654

Um, look, look forward and working

together where we can, you know, not

: 1079

00:51:57,654 --> 00:52:01,484

just think about ourselves and not

just the Muslim community and not just,

: 1080

00:52:01,514 --> 00:52:06,254

you know, the bubbles that we're in,

but we see this country as a whole.

: 1081

00:52:07,594 --> 00:52:09,164

Everyone who is in need, right?

: 1082

00:52:09,174 --> 00:52:12,144

From the different sectors to

homelessness, to those who don't

: 1083

00:52:12,144 --> 00:52:18,934

have medical coverage, those who are

fighting substance abuse, those who

: 1084

00:52:19,064 --> 00:52:21,464

may be struggling with mental health.

: 1085

00:52:22,019 --> 00:52:25,389

Just, you know, really the mission of the

Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, right?

: 1086

00:52:25,649 --> 00:52:28,529

The Prophet was not

rahmatan lil muslimeen.

: 1087

00:52:28,709 --> 00:52:29,199

That's right.

: 1088

00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,769

He was not a mercy for the Muslims, right?

: 1089

00:52:31,769 --> 00:52:33,609

He was rahmatan lil alameen.

: 1090

00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:36,239

He was a mercy for all of God's creation.

: 1091

00:52:36,269 --> 00:52:38,189

Alameen is everything other than God.

: 1092

00:52:38,909 --> 00:52:41,149

The humans, the animals.

: 1093

00:52:41,489 --> 00:52:44,249

Right, how the Prophet

took care of his animals.

: 1094

00:52:44,359 --> 00:52:48,229

He named his horses and the

rides that he used to use.

: 1095

00:52:48,449 --> 00:52:52,739

To the plants, I mean, I really, um,

Ustadh Tamim, shout out to him again.

: 1096

00:52:52,989 --> 00:52:55,479

I don't know any other Prophet

that went and hugged a tree.

: 1097

00:52:56,469 --> 00:52:58,219

The Prophet went and hugged a tree.

: 1098

00:52:59,374 --> 00:53:02,724

And you may be looking at that

and say, you know what, but he

: 1099

00:53:02,724 --> 00:53:04,314

was a rahma, he was a mercy.

: 1100

00:53:04,324 --> 00:53:05,624

Imam Tariq: You have to share this story.

: 1101

00:53:05,824 --> 00:53:09,254

Muslims are familiar, but I

believe this is of great value

: 1102

00:53:09,254 --> 00:53:12,114

that demonstrates the beauty of

: 1103

00:53:12,114 --> 00:53:13,984

Sheikh Saifullah: Rasulullah

salallahu alayhi wa sallam.

: 1104

00:53:13,984 --> 00:53:18,814

So the story goes that when the Prophet

went to Medina and he started giving

: 1105

00:53:18,814 --> 00:53:21,464

his sermons, he would hold this tree.

: 1106

00:53:21,799 --> 00:53:25,189

You know, some of the mosques, we have

an asa, we have a cane that we hold.

: 1107

00:53:25,279 --> 00:53:28,509

So the Prophet would do that

as he would give the sermon.

: 1108

00:53:28,839 --> 00:53:32,109

And the community started to

grow, the Muslims started to grow.

: 1109

00:53:32,399 --> 00:53:36,479

So the sahaba came to the companions

and said, Oh Prophet of God, let

: 1110

00:53:36,479 --> 00:53:40,309

us make for you a mimber, a pulpit,

so you can stand and give the

: 1111

00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:41,929

sermon from on top of the pulpit.

: 1112

00:53:42,049 --> 00:53:43,839

So he said, okay, you can.

: 1113

00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:46,799

They ended up making the pulpit

in a different area, a different

: 1114

00:53:46,799 --> 00:53:49,109

place, not where he used to stand.

: 1115

00:53:49,539 --> 00:53:53,699

So the first In this instance of

him giving the sermon, he goes to

: 1116

00:53:53,699 --> 00:53:58,309

the pulpit, they hear a crying,

and he sits down and stops.

: 1117

00:53:58,659 --> 00:54:01,589

He stands up again and

the crying begins again.

: 1118

00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:06,159

So the Prophet gets off and he goes

and he finds this tree and he puts

: 1119

00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:12,469

his hand on this tree and he hugs this

tree and the Prophet of God, then he

: 1120

00:54:12,469 --> 00:54:17,379

tells the hadith that if I was not to

hug this tree and show kindness and

: 1121

00:54:17,379 --> 00:54:20,209

mercy to this tree, this tree would

have cried until the Day of Judgment.

: 1122

00:54:21,064 --> 00:54:23,884

The Prophet of God had this

relationship with everything around

: 1123

00:54:23,884 --> 00:54:26,334

him because he's unconditional mercy.

: 1124

00:54:26,344 --> 00:54:31,194

He's the genesis of mercy

being born into this world.

: 1125

00:54:31,564 --> 00:54:35,614

I think that it centers, you know,

the mission of, um, us as Muslims.

: 1126

00:54:35,934 --> 00:54:38,324

The Qur'an is not just for the Muslim.

: 1127

00:54:38,774 --> 00:54:41,084

But it's for the entire world, right?

: 1128

00:54:41,084 --> 00:54:44,084

And I, we have to start

looking beyond just ourselves.

: 1129

00:54:44,084 --> 00:54:47,224

We need to look at

everyone as a whole, right?

: 1130

00:54:47,224 --> 00:54:51,604

Because the prophet of God tells us

that kullu adam all of you are from

: 1131

00:54:51,604 --> 00:54:55,444

children of Adam wa adam min turab

and Adam came from dust, right?

: 1132

00:54:55,454 --> 00:54:56,584

That's your lineage.

: 1133

00:54:56,774 --> 00:55:00,994

We have a connection to all of creation

and we have to work towards, you

: 1134

00:55:00,994 --> 00:55:02,584

know, benefiting all of creation.

: 1135

00:55:04,094 --> 00:55:05,654

Imam Tariq: Ah, beautiful narration.

: 1136

00:55:06,124 --> 00:55:07,134

Beautiful narration.

: 1137

00:55:07,554 --> 00:55:07,914

MashaAllah.

: 1138

00:55:09,344 --> 00:55:12,254

Do you have any, any current

projects or is there anything

: 1139

00:55:12,354 --> 00:55:15,614

that you're working on that the

listening family should know about?

: 1140

00:55:15,804 --> 00:55:19,794

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah, Alhamdulillah, you

know, I think projects continue to go on.

: 1141

00:55:19,804 --> 00:55:23,654

There's always, you finish one project

and you see another one you have to start.

: 1142

00:55:23,959 --> 00:55:27,689

I think a lot of us who are in

this field, we don't know what

: 1143

00:55:27,689 --> 00:55:29,359

it means to have self care.

: 1144

00:55:30,579 --> 00:55:35,429

And, um, so yeah, alhamdulillah, you

know, recently to continue this idea of

: 1145

00:55:35,429 --> 00:55:40,069

serving community, you know, being in

Minnesota for the last five years now,

: 1146

00:55:40,509 --> 00:55:46,089

um, I, I've served different capacities,

you know, in my mosque as a resident

: 1147

00:55:46,109 --> 00:55:50,879

scholar, um, someone who contributes to

interfaith and multi faith, you know,

: 1148

00:55:50,889 --> 00:55:54,059

circles, but also the university students.

: 1149

00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:59,229

And I, I think so, growing up,

kind of going back to my childhood,

: 1150

00:55:59,649 --> 00:56:04,184

um, I always had this, you know,

not, completely positive, um,

: 1151

00:56:04,194 --> 00:56:08,004

relationship, religion, because of

the people that I saw, the imams, and

: 1152

00:56:08,264 --> 00:56:09,804

how I wasn't able to talk to them.

: 1153

00:56:09,804 --> 00:56:13,074

You know, this idea that, you know,

they're big scholars and imams.

: 1154

00:56:13,314 --> 00:56:15,594

And we were actually really

scared of them, to be honest.

: 1155

00:56:16,224 --> 00:56:20,024

And I never had someone I could talk

to, so, you know, growing up and

: 1156

00:56:20,034 --> 00:56:23,564

doing my studies, I said, you know,

I want to go back, I want to serve.

: 1157

00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:26,589

I want to serve the community, I want

to serve youth, and I want to be able

: 1158

00:56:26,589 --> 00:56:30,649

to be someone that can relate to, be

friends with them, and break that barrier.

: 1159

00:56:30,849 --> 00:56:34,899

So I've been serving, you know, as

a sheikh that comes to campus and

: 1160

00:56:34,899 --> 00:56:39,239

works with the MSA, we have AMCC,

Al Medina Cultural Center, I give

: 1161

00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,199

once a month khutbah at the church.

: 1162

00:56:41,509 --> 00:56:44,639

I saw a gap in, you know,

the, in the community.

: 1163

00:56:45,604 --> 00:56:49,004

Which was, the Muslim students

didn't have a space for themselves.

: 1164

00:56:49,484 --> 00:56:53,164

When you look on campus, you

see, you know, the Christians,

: 1165

00:56:53,194 --> 00:56:54,534

they have campus churches.

: 1166

00:56:54,944 --> 00:56:57,294

Right, and we pray Jummah

on campus in a church.

: 1167

00:56:58,249 --> 00:57:01,579

When you look at the Jewish students,

they have, you know, the halals where they

: 1168

00:57:01,579 --> 00:57:06,429

have the Jewish student, um, you know,

associations and bodies where they can go.

: 1169

00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:08,359

But the Muslims don't have

anything for themselves.

: 1170

00:57:08,369 --> 00:57:11,169

We have a small room,

which is a cultural room.

: 1171

00:57:11,179 --> 00:57:12,479

It's not even an Islamic room.

: 1172

00:57:12,479 --> 00:57:14,169

It's a cultural room

given by the university.

: 1173

00:57:14,169 --> 00:57:14,799

University.

: 1174

00:57:14,829 --> 00:57:17,559

Mm-hmm . Which there's a lot

of limitations and everything.

: 1175

00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,379

And I, I was involved, I hope

I can say this, I was involved

: 1176

00:57:20,379 --> 00:57:22,872

with encampments when, when,

you know, oh, of course you can.

: 1177

00:57:22,894 --> 00:57:23,679

A love that was going on.

: 1178

00:57:23,889 --> 00:57:27,699

Um, but yeah, I was involved, I was

part of that, and I, I was the only

: 1179

00:57:27,699 --> 00:57:32,019

imam that went and, um, stayed with the

students for four days in the encampment.

: 1180

00:57:32,109 --> 00:57:32,289

Mm.

: 1181

00:57:32,349 --> 00:57:34,179

As long as our encampment

wasn't that long.

: 1182

00:57:34,209 --> 00:57:38,379

Hamdullah, we were able

to , get things done, , right?

: 1183

00:57:38,379 --> 00:57:40,029

We just get things done in Minnesota,

: 1184

00:57:40,389 --> 00:57:43,539

So within four days, Hamdullah, we were

able, but I bought, I got a tent, the

: 1185

00:57:43,539 --> 00:57:45,009

first tent, and I put a sleeping bag.

: 1186

00:57:45,009 --> 00:57:45,939

I'm like, I'm staying here.

: 1187

00:57:45,939 --> 00:57:49,419

I told my ma I didn't even get permission,

so I'm gonna stay here until this is done.

: 1188

00:57:50,049 --> 00:57:54,159

And I was the only imam other than one

other imam, um, but everyone was like,

: 1189

00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:57,719

you know, media, you know It's gonna

be bad for our mosque and I was like,

: 1190

00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:00,669

you know, these are our Muslim students

Someone has to be there with them.

: 1191

00:58:00,789 --> 00:58:04,729

Yeah, and I'm gonna be there with

them So I saw that you know during the

: 1192

00:58:04,729 --> 00:58:07,819

encampment time the university shut down

everything and we weren't able to get

: 1193

00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:12,329

access to this one Cultural room where

we had all of our stuff and that didn't

: 1194

00:58:12,329 --> 00:58:14,654

sit well with me I said, that's not fair.

: 1195

00:58:14,654 --> 00:58:18,554

You know, that's the only room that

we have on campus Muslims, and we have

: 1196

00:58:18,554 --> 00:58:20,324

all of our resources, everything there.

: 1197

00:58:20,324 --> 00:58:20,414

Right.

: 1198

00:58:20,984 --> 00:58:26,534

Um, and we, we basically have

access to that room on their terms.

: 1199

00:58:26,654 --> 00:58:26,864

Yeah.

: 1200

00:58:27,014 --> 00:58:29,354

I said, it can't be like that anymore.

: 1201

00:58:29,774 --> 00:58:32,839

You know, we are in: 2025

: 1202

00:58:33,194 --> 00:58:34,514

We need to have access.

: 1203

00:58:34,544 --> 00:58:38,654

We need to have a space of our own

when we can access it on our terms.

: 1204

00:58:38,684 --> 00:58:38,895

That's right.

: 1205

00:58:39,449 --> 00:58:43,529

And so, Alhamdulillah, with a group

of people, um, shout out to Dr.

: 1206

00:58:43,539 --> 00:58:45,189

Rabia Khan, our other classmate.

: 1207

00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:46,819

She's one of our board members.

: 1208

00:58:46,969 --> 00:58:50,439

We came up with this idea of Salam

Community, which is going to be,

: 1209

00:58:50,439 --> 00:58:53,569

Inshallah, the first of its kind

in Minnesota, which is going to

: 1210

00:58:53,569 --> 00:58:56,879

be a Muslim youth space on campus.

: 1211

00:58:57,199 --> 00:58:58,539

So it's a three story building.

: 1212

00:58:58,869 --> 00:59:03,589

There's a coffee shop on the bottom,

coffee and halal food, um, that actually

: 1213

00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:06,979

funds the entire building because

all the profits go back to Salam.

: 1214

00:59:07,289 --> 00:59:08,699

And then there's Salam Community.

: 1215

00:59:09,014 --> 00:59:11,864

So you have Salaam Coffee, you have

Salaam Community, which is the third

: 1216

00:59:11,864 --> 00:59:15,994

space, the space where, you know, people

can just come in my, our principle is

: 1217

00:59:16,014 --> 00:59:20,434

that which Imam Zaid Shakir, I think he

coined it and now Ta'alif uses as well,

: 1218

00:59:20,674 --> 00:59:22,774

is come as you are to Islam as it is.

: 1219

00:59:22,824 --> 00:59:23,064

Yeah.

: 1220

00:59:23,384 --> 00:59:26,944

And that's our motto there as well,

come as you are to Islam as it is.

: 1221

00:59:27,114 --> 00:59:27,364

Right.

: 1222

00:59:27,534 --> 00:59:28,784

Sheikh Saifullah: No strings attached.

: 1223

00:59:29,084 --> 00:59:32,284

So that's really what we're

envision embodying that, um, that.

: 1224

00:59:32,334 --> 00:59:35,594

second floor and then the third

floor is our seminary where we will

: 1225

00:59:35,614 --> 00:59:40,524

be producing the next generation of

imam, scholars, chaplains, um, for the

: 1226

00:59:40,524 --> 00:59:42,424

Minnesota and surrounding communities.

: 1227

00:59:43,334 --> 00:59:44,454

Imam Tariq: You got a seminary too.

: 1228

00:59:44,644 --> 00:59:44,884

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

: 1229

00:59:46,275 --> 00:59:46,765

Imam Tariq: MashaAllah.

: 1230

00:59:46,765 --> 00:59:47,435

That's awesome.

: 1231

00:59:47,705 --> 00:59:47,965

Sheikh Saifullah: Yeah.

: 1232

00:59:47,965 --> 00:59:53,005

And you know, it's more than a seminary

for me specifically because you

: 1233

00:59:53,005 --> 00:59:58,375

know, I've studied In, um, you know,

traditional gatherings and madrasas

: 1234

00:59:58,385 --> 01:00:02,425

and the, you know, traditional, what

we call dars nizami or the curriculum,

: 1235

01:00:02,895 --> 01:00:07,245

as well as I studied academically

in institutions like bayan, um, and

: 1236

01:00:07,245 --> 01:00:08,985

the jami'ah, the university system.

: 1237

01:00:09,325 --> 01:00:13,255

So I'm really looking to merge the

two, a hybrid version of the two.

: 1238

01:00:13,345 --> 01:00:16,945

So being true to the text,

but also the context, right?

: 1239

01:00:17,115 --> 01:00:20,065

So, um, that's what I'm

working on currently.

: 1240

01:00:20,775 --> 01:00:21,880

Imam Tariq: Hmm,

: 1241

01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:22,984

Sheikh Saifullah: Alhamdulillah.

: 1242

01:00:22,985 --> 01:00:24,045

May Allah give you success.

: 1243

01:00:24,045 --> 01:00:25,254

Ameen, Ameen, Ameen.

: 1244

01:00:25,255 --> 01:00:26,395

Yeah, beautiful, beautiful.

: 1245

01:00:26,415 --> 01:00:29,285

Yeah, so Alhamdulillah, within a

very short period of time, we were

: 1246

01:00:29,285 --> 01:00:31,085

able to, you know, find a building.

: 1247

01:00:31,445 --> 01:00:36,685

Um, Alhamdulillah, within two months,

we were able to raise more than a half

: 1248

01:00:36,685 --> 01:00:38,265

million dollars from the community.

: 1249

01:00:38,575 --> 01:00:41,645

And, um, yeah, Alhamdulillah, we're

moving forward in a couple months to

: 1250

01:00:41,645 --> 01:00:44,005

do closing and then to open the space.

: 1251

01:00:44,025 --> 01:00:47,155

Hopefully, our goal before fall next year.

: 1252

01:00:48,215 --> 01:00:53,315

So, orientation week, inshallah we want to

open orientation and then also the name.

: 1253

01:00:53,625 --> 01:00:58,945

So, a lot of people have asked me,

Shaykh why did you choose Salam, right?

: 1254

01:00:59,125 --> 01:01:00,765

Why didn't you choose

something more general?

: 1255

01:01:01,055 --> 01:01:05,455

Where you can kind of blend in, you know,

to, with everything else around you.

: 1256

01:01:05,595 --> 01:01:05,825

Right.

: 1257

01:01:05,865 --> 01:01:07,935

Sheikh Saifullah: And I said,

you know, I want to embrace the

: 1258

01:01:07,935 --> 01:01:09,565

identity that we have as Muslims.

: 1259

01:01:09,585 --> 01:01:10,865

I don't want to hide it anymore.

: 1260

01:01:11,035 --> 01:01:15,715

And we've done a lot of that, I

mean, you know, post 9 11, and the

: 1261

01:01:15,715 --> 01:01:19,465

difficulties that people went through,

and I mean, could be now even Who knows

: 1262

01:01:19,465 --> 01:01:22,435

what's going to happen with this new

administration, but yeah, you know,

: 1263

01:01:22,455 --> 01:01:23,915

I want to embrace the idea as well.

: 1264

01:01:23,915 --> 01:01:25,345

So I'm not scared anymore.

: 1265

01:01:25,365 --> 01:01:26,995

Like I, I walked through the airport.

: 1266

01:01:26,995 --> 01:01:27,665

I'm not scared.

: 1267

01:01:27,675 --> 01:01:31,365

They want to, you know, question

me, which I get questioned a lot.

: 1268

01:01:32,095 --> 01:01:32,995

I'm open book.

: 1269

01:01:33,125 --> 01:01:36,565

Look at everything you want to look

at, but I want to embrace that idea.

: 1270

01:01:36,565 --> 01:01:40,305

I want people to know we're Muslims, but

they feel comfortable to interact with us.

: 1271

01:01:40,325 --> 01:01:43,315

And then the name set up, you

know, it's the name of God, right?

: 1272

01:01:43,315 --> 01:01:44,975

Who was Salam, right?

: 1273

01:01:45,025 --> 01:01:45,815

And Jannah.

: 1274

01:01:46,255 --> 01:01:50,465

Heaven, paradise is called Darus

Salaam, place of Salaam, right?

: 1275

01:01:50,675 --> 01:01:52,645

And the Prophet Sallallahu

Alaihi Wasallam, he tells

: 1276

01:01:52,685 --> 01:01:54,405

us Afshus Salaam, spread

: 1277

01:01:55,035 --> 01:01:55,395

Salaam,

: 1278

01:01:55,525 --> 01:01:55,915

Sheikh Saifullah: right?

: 1279

01:01:56,165 --> 01:01:58,015

So, which is peace.

: 1280

01:01:58,285 --> 01:02:01,285

So culminating all of that is that

we should be a center of Salaam.

: 1281

01:02:01,345 --> 01:02:02,224

Uh,

: 1282

01:02:02,225 --> 01:02:05,605

Sheikh Saifullah: so that's why I

called it Salam Community and, um,

: 1283

01:02:05,615 --> 01:02:08,215

three stories, three, three examples.

: 1284

01:02:08,345 --> 01:02:08,735

Yeah.

: 1285

01:02:09,165 --> 01:02:11,205

Three of the works out.

: 1286

01:02:11,695 --> 01:02:15,885

So with Salam, you know, just really

envisioning and then taking that and,

: 1287

01:02:16,185 --> 01:02:17,755

um, you know, they say dream big,

: 1288

01:02:17,985 --> 01:02:18,755

right, right.

: 1289

01:02:18,765 --> 01:02:21,885

Sheikh Saifullah: You know, ask

Allah, you know, when we asked the

: 1290

01:02:21,885 --> 01:02:24,115

Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam

said, just don't ask Allah for Jannah.

: 1291

01:02:24,475 --> 01:02:27,515

Ask Allah for Firdos, the

highest place of Jannah, right.

: 1292

01:02:27,625 --> 01:02:32,025

You know as you aim for the stars

Yeah, so our goal inshallah with our

: 1293

01:02:32,055 --> 01:02:37,405

with Salam community is to become

the halal's of For the Muslims where

: 1294

01:02:37,485 --> 01:02:41,085

every single campus wherever there's

a need All throughout the United

: 1295

01:02:41,085 --> 01:02:44,735

States, we'll have Salaam communities

and it can be adapted to their needs.

: 1296

01:02:44,915 --> 01:02:49,045

So if they need a mosque, we have

a mosque part of ours where we have

: 1297

01:02:49,045 --> 01:02:53,795

Jummah and stuff and gathering space

on the second floor and a coffee shop.

: 1298

01:02:53,825 --> 01:02:56,225

If they need more than

that, we can adapt it.

: 1299

01:02:56,415 --> 01:02:59,804

But they have at least that minimum

kind of requirement kind of thing

: 1300

01:02:59,805 --> 01:03:01,765

and then start expanding inshallah.

: 1301

01:03:02,255 --> 01:03:02,575

Hmm.

: 1302

01:03:02,795 --> 01:03:03,245

Imam Tariq: MashaAllah.

: 1303

01:03:03,245 --> 01:03:03,875

That's beautiful.

: 1304

01:03:04,610 --> 01:03:05,270

That is beautiful.

: 1305

01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:08,750

Yeah, you are thinking

big, but you know what?

: 1306

01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:14,150

Regardless of how big we can

think, it is, it will never

: 1307

01:03:14,270 --> 01:03:16,700

exceed Allah's ability to give.

: 1308

01:03:17,230 --> 01:03:21,450

So, yeah, so we're going to always

be, you know, thinking small.

: 1309

01:03:22,660 --> 01:03:24,440

Sheikh Saifullah: Nothing

is difficult for Allah.

: 1310

01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:31,620

If God wishes anything,

it says be and it is.

: 1311

01:03:31,620 --> 01:03:36,090

So inshallah, you know, with the

blessing of God and his, and his, um,

: 1312

01:03:36,100 --> 01:03:41,470

his rahmah, his mercy, um, we look to

serve another way of serving the entire,

: 1313

01:03:41,930 --> 01:03:44,990

um, community, entire Muslim population.

: 1314

01:03:45,150 --> 01:03:45,660

Imam Tariq: Inshallah.

: 1315

01:03:45,890 --> 01:03:49,150

Well, Sheikh Saifullah, it has

been a pleasure talking to you.

: 1316

01:03:49,740 --> 01:03:54,100

Uh, I thank you for sharing a bit of

your journey with us and, and, and also

: 1317

01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:55,400

talking about the work that you're doing.

: 1318

01:03:55,900 --> 01:03:58,770

Uh, we're going to keep you, your

community, and the work that you're

: 1319

01:03:58,770 --> 01:04:00,650

doing, not just for Minnesota.

: 1320

01:04:01,105 --> 01:04:04,965

Uh, Muslims in Minnesota, but for,

for all of us, uh, and I do want,

: 1321

01:04:05,175 --> 01:04:08,335

Sheikh Saifullah: I mean, does that look

and thank you for your service and you're,

: 1322

01:04:08,385 --> 01:04:12,855

I know, I know we have to do a podcast

with you so we can talk, we can flip it

: 1323

01:04:12,995 --> 01:04:16,625

and you can be on the other side, but may

Allah bless your service and the community

: 1324

01:04:16,625 --> 01:04:20,785

that you serve, your masjid, and you know,

the work that you do for Bayan as well.

: 1325

01:04:20,785 --> 01:04:23,612

MashaAllah doing this podcast

and this platform and may

: 1326

01:04:23,612 --> 01:04:24,919

Allah continue to increase

: 1327

01:04:24,919 --> 01:04:25,246

Imam Tariq: you.

: 1328

01:04:25,246 --> 01:04:25,573

Ameen.

: 1329

01:04:25,573 --> 01:04:25,899

Ameen.

: 1330

01:04:27,210 --> 01:04:30,600

All right, family, it is that time

for us to say assalamu alaykum.

: 1331

01:04:31,090 --> 01:04:34,260

Before we do, I want to say

thank you for taking the time

: 1332

01:04:34,660 --> 01:04:36,380

to listen to the conversation.

: 1333

01:04:36,990 --> 01:04:39,779

I pray, I hope that you

have found some value in it.

: 1334

01:04:40,070 --> 01:04:41,520

If so, consider sharing.

: 1335

01:04:42,620 --> 01:04:45,930

And if you share, you got to like, and if

you like it, you got to give us a comment.

: 1336

01:04:46,785 --> 01:04:49,585

And if you comment, hopefully we

got a really good rating from you.

: 1337

01:04:50,495 --> 01:04:54,205

That said, we want to also remind you

to support the work of Bayan Islamic

: 1338

01:04:54,225 --> 01:04:56,735

Graduate School by going to bayanonline.

: 1339

01:04:57,835 --> 01:05:01,735

org and contributing to the

Muhammad Ali Scholarship.

: 1340

01:05:02,545 --> 01:05:07,015

If you didn't know, over 70 percent of

the students at Bayan Islamic Graduate

: 1341

01:05:07,015 --> 01:05:08,945

School are scholarship recipients.

: 1342

01:05:09,404 --> 01:05:13,115

And the last thing I'll say, and

I'm not going to go with a long

: 1343

01:05:13,115 --> 01:05:17,215

pitch, I'll just say that you can

also support their work by getting

: 1344

01:05:17,245 --> 01:05:20,295

a subscription to Bayan On Demand.

: 1345

01:05:20,775 --> 01:05:21,855

It's 10 a month.

: 1346

01:05:22,375 --> 01:05:26,965

It gives you access to a catalog

of classes that right now numbers

: 1347

01:05:27,025 --> 01:05:29,445

at 30, and that number is going up.

: 1348

01:05:31,105 --> 01:05:32,045

And that's all I have to say.

: 1349

01:05:32,675 --> 01:05:36,335

So, inshallah, with God's permission,

we will do it again next week.

: 1350

01:05:37,145 --> 01:05:38,785

I'm your host, Imam Tariq Al Amin.

: 1351

01:05:39,340 --> 01:05:41,160

I leave you now as I greeted you.

: 1352

01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:42,529

Assalamualaikum.

: 1353

01:05:42,810 --> 01:05:44,940

May the peace that only

God can give be upon

: 1354

01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:47,130

you.