Episode 3

full
Published on:

29th Jan 2025

Faith, Service, & Community--Imam Bilal Elsakka

Imam Bilal Elsakka: Service, Education, and the Community

In this episode of The American Muslim Podcast, host Imam Tariq Al Amin converses with Imam Bilal Elsakka, highlighting his extensive community involvement and educational journey through Bayan Islamic Graduate School and Bayan On Demand. The discussion covers the vital role of preparation in delivering impactful sermons, the intersection of faith and civic engagement, and the importance of God consciousness in making life decisions. Imam Bilal shares insights on his upbringing, fueled by his mother's dedication to the Muslim community, and emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and continuous learning for leaders. This episode provides a valuable perspective on the responsibilities and impact of imams in nurturing and guiding their communities.

00:00 Introduction to Bayan on Demand

00:43 Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast

01:35 Meet Imam Bilal Elsakka

02:58 Imam Bilal's Journey and Inspirations

22:06 Challenges and Reflections on Being an Imam

25:24 Explaining Istikhara to Non-Muslims

26:33 Understanding the Essence of Prayer

27:04 Connecting with God in Daily Life

27:52 The Role of God Consciousness in Decision Making

28:51 The Appeal and Simplicity of Islam

31:26 The Importance of Good Character in Islam

36:32 Balancing Faith and Civic Engagement

40:43 The Role of Imams in the Community

45:00 The Importance of Preparation for Imams

48:33 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

bayanonline.org

Subscribe to Bayan on demand at https://shorturl.at/wlQl7

Donate to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship at https://pages.donately.com/bayan/campaign/2028-endowment-campaign/donate

Transcript
Tariq:

Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly

2

:

regarded scholars and practitioners.

3

:

Designed for masjid board members,

school administrators, imams, chaplains,

4

:

youth workers, parents, and more.

5

:

With classes on Islamic theology,

adolescent development, non

6

:

profit management, and the history

of Islam in America and more.

7

:

Bayan on Demand provides accessible

knowledge for just 10 a month.

8

:

Join our growing community of

learners today and support the work

9

:

of Bayan Islamic Graduate School

and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship.

10

:

Go to bayanonline.

11

:

org, that's B A Y A N online.

12

:

org to get more information.

13

:

Assalamu

14

:

alaikum.

15

:

May the peace that only

God can give be upon you.

16

:

Welcome to the American

Muslim Podcast presented by.

17

:

I'm your host, Imam Tariq Al Amin.

18

:

It is my pleasure each week to bring

you conversations with men and women

19

:

from across the country who use their

talents and abilities in service

20

:

of their communities and humanity.

21

:

From scholars and educators to imams,

chaplains, and non profit leaders, those

22

:

who are working in the public space and

the private, this podcast highlights their

23

:

service, their journeys, and how their

stories contribute to the rich narrative

24

:

of what it means to be Muslim in America.

25

:

Our guest this week is Imam Bilal Elsakka.

26

:

He currently serves as the

Director of Development for

27

:

Esan Foundation for West Africa.

28

:

He's the Director of Youth Programs for

REDA, Refugee Enrichment and Development

29

:

Association, and he's a MA in Islamic

Education student at Bayan, as well

30

:

as a seminary student at the Majlis.

31

:

I think we've already established that

our brother Imam is a busy brother.

32

:

And that makes me all the more

appreciative of him taking the

33

:

time out to have this conversation.

34

:

So, without any further delay, let's get

into this week's conversation with Imam

35

:

Elsakka,

36

:

As Salaamu Alaikum Imam

Bilal Elsakka, how are you?

37

:

How are you doing?

38

:

I am doing well.

39

:

Uh, it's always a pleasure.

40

:

Um, I'm going to let the listening

audience in on a little secret, and

41

:

that is we've done this already.

42

:

But you have been very gracious with

your time, and because of some technical

43

:

difficulties, agreed to come back on so

we could have this conversation again.

44

:

And hopefully, lightning strikes twice,

because we had such a great conversation.

45

:

Bilal: Alhamdulillah, it was so

nice we decided to do it twice.

46

:

Right, right, right.

47

:

Alhamdulillah.

48

:

Tariq: Where should

49

:

we start?

50

:

We like to give, as we state at the

beginning of the program, one of our

51

:

goals here is to share the stories of

the men and women associated with Bayan

52

:

Islamic Graduate School and how they serve

their communities in a myriad of ways.

53

:

But more importantly, to dive

into how they got where they are.

54

:

Where did it all

55

:

Bilal: start for you?

56

:

Tariq: Bismillah ar

57

:

Bilal: Rahman ar Rahim I say it

jokingly, but also not so jokingly.

58

:

It started in the womb.

59

:

Meaning there's so much credit

that goes back to my mom.

60

:

Super brief background.

61

:

Mom grew up Christian and

accepted Islam in her 20s.

62

:

She has been serving the Muslim community

literally since before I was born.

63

:

Whether as a volunteer, Or employment,

whatever it may be, there, there

64

:

has been some role that she has

consistently had in the Muslim

65

:

community for nearly 40 years now.

66

:

SubhanAllah.

67

:

Tariq: Hmm.

68

:

MashaAllah.

69

:

Bilal: Growing up, we know

these slogans or catchphrases of

70

:

actions speak louder than words.

71

:

Actions were to serve the community.

72

:

Her example was to value the

community, not just in theory,

73

:

but especially in practice.

74

:

So she's been Connected to one, her niche

was Islamic schools and within serving one

75

:

Islamic school or another, she has worked

at the front desk as a homeroom teacher in

76

:

the library and as a substitute teacher.

77

:

So when I looked back, played a

significant role in the molding

78

:

and shaping of what I saw to be

important without even realizing it,

79

:

I don't even know if she realized it.

80

:

She was just doing what she felt

was right and necessary, and I find

81

:

myself years later, the specific

program that I'm doing at Bayonne is

82

:

the Master's in Islamic Education.

83

:

Tariq: Okay.

84

:

Bilal: So it's a very niche area of focus.

85

:

I also look back and my first job after

my undergrad in communications at San

86

:

Jose State was to teach at the Islamic

school that I attended growing up.

87

:

When attending that school, she was

my homeroom teacher in second grade.

88

:

This was when we had the, the

hafiz program going at that time.

89

:

So I have to give a lot of credit.

90

:

Back to her, even her working in the

library at the Islamic school after I

91

:

finished school and she had some work to

get to, I would hang out in the library.

92

:

There was this norm of valuing

books, knowledge, students, and

93

:

teachers regarding learning in

general, especially sacred learning.

94

:

There was always a sense of, of

support and validation from her part.

95

:

We each know that a lot of the time at

the dinner table in many Muslim families,

96

:

if there's a kid at whatever age.

97

:

If they mentioned to their parents,

when I grow up, I want to be any man.

98

:

When I grow up a lot of the time

internally, it gets shut down.

99

:

No, no, no, no, no.

100

:

You're not allowed to do that.

101

:

That's for someone else.

102

:

You see, you're intelligent, so you

need to go into medicine or engineering.

103

:

What kind of message does

that send to the kid?

104

:

Tariq: Right.

105

:

Bilal: Real intelligence goes here.

106

:

This imam ing stuff and serving the

community and teaching and anything

107

:

other than with all due respect to the

doctors and engineers, God bless them.

108

:

There are many sincere doctors and

engineers in the Muslim community.

109

:

But there has to be an understanding.

110

:

Not everyone is cut out for those roles.

111

:

When, uh, when it started with

part time work, when I was 19,

112

:

serving a local Muslim non profit.

113

:

There was support and a green

light as opposed to red tape.

114

:

It evolved from there.

115

:

First, it was Hidayah Foundation.

116

:

May Allah bless them.

117

:

They do a lot of good work,

especially in Pakistan.

118

:

From there, I transitioned to

serving as the Dawah Coordinator

119

:

at a local masjid, MCA, one of the

bigger masjids in North America.

120

:

After doing that for a few

months, I transitioned to

121

:

serving as the youth coordinator.

122

:

When I graduated college, I

taught at Granada Islamic School.

123

:

And then a year later, a local

community reached out and said,

124

:

Hey, we're looking for an imam

who can also relate to the youth.

125

:

So Allah facilitated

things one after another.

126

:

And I look back and sometimes I wonder

how in the world did I end up where I am?

127

:

Alhamdulillah.

128

:

Alhamdulillah.

129

:

Tariq: you talk about education

almost as an ambience or an

130

:

atmosphere, the appreciation, just,

just having it enveloping you.

131

:

I hear people, I'll use ballplayers,

for example, they talk about how

132

:

that's their fortress of solitude.

133

:

That's their happy place, their

calm place, the place that they want

134

:

to be when things are difficult.

135

:

They want to be on the court.

136

:

Did you find yourself feeling similarly

about educational spaces that give

137

:

you a sense of, of comfort and peace?

138

:

Bilal: Yeah.

139

:

Yeah.

140

:

That I appreciate the framing ballplayers.

141

:

You know, we've had conversations

about hoops in the past.

142

:

Ballplayer can refer to

different sports, but.

143

:

We're probably thinking of basketball.

144

:

That's right, that's right.

145

:

Um, yeah, I would say so.

146

:

Just the sense of comfort, being

familiar with the environment,

147

:

the atmosphere, and enjoying it.

148

:

I love working with youth.

149

:

I've been working with youth now for

15 years, maybe longer, I've lost

150

:

track of my life except the time

and effort from any and all of us.

151

:

Amen.

152

:

Through doing, you realize different

things that you enjoy, different

153

:

things that you like and appreciate.

154

:

Different elements related to education,

whether it was learning more about

155

:

the Qur'an, whether it was trying to

benefit from the weekly Jumma Khutba.

156

:

There was that sense of familiarity.

157

:

And, you know, time is a funny thing.

158

:

Time just feels different.

159

:

When you enjoy what you're doing, when

you love what you're doing, really

160

:

working with youth, different levels

of youth, different ages of youth.

161

:

There's something special

about the different age ranges.

162

:

So if it's ages eight, nine, and

10, that's a certain demographic.

163

:

There are certain things I

love about that age group.

164

:

Now, I primarily work with youth in

middle school and high school at Ridla.

165

:

Uh, Ridla is one of the

nonprofits that I work for.

166

:

There I work with refugee youth

in the Sacramento area and every

167

:

week we have these discussions.

168

:

They have good questions.

169

:

They have good reflections.

170

:

There are different

projects that we work on.

171

:

I really feel like they end up teaching

me more than I end up teaching them,

172

:

not even through their words

necessarily, but it could be

173

:

through their manners because

these are refugee youth physically.

174

:

They may be minors, but when it

comes to life experience, they're

175

:

basically adults a lot of that side.

176

:

Tariq: Cause they've had to put

responsibility on their shoulders

177

:

or have had it thrust onto them.

178

:

Bilal: And to see these youth go up

against all odds and really excelling

179

:

in school, in spite of being resettled

in often difficult neighborhoods, they

180

:

may not have access to an abundance of

resources, but you find them pushing

181

:

themselves and being dedicated and

just being around people like that.

182

:

It does have.

183

:

So, Alhamdulillah, I enjoy the

time that I get to spend with

184

:

them every week, Alhamdulillah.

185

:

Tariq: That's a special type of work.

186

:

I certainly relate to it.

187

:

My wife and I, we, we ran an Islamic

weekend school for about five years.

188

:

And some of the most rewarding work that

I've had the blessing to be a part of.

189

:

And I wonder, though, do you

feel like there's a shelf life?

190

:

I think it's important to

keep that association, right?

191

:

Being around young people keeps

you vibrant, keeps your eyes open.

192

:

But at the same time, do you think

there's a point where, even though

193

:

you look 20, there'll come a point

where you feel like maybe there's

194

:

a distance that has crept up?

195

:

Do you feel like that's something

that really doesn't apply?

196

:

Depending upon the way

that you engage that work,

197

:

Bilal: are you asking regarding

me personally or in general,

198

:

Tariq: in general,

199

:

Bilal: I think there's a spectrum

and I think it's important for that.

200

:

The fact that there is a spectrum, in

my opinion, when it comes to whether

201

:

it's the shelf life or how long can

someone really do these types of things?

202

:

Well, it varies for some people,

their capacity may be a year.

203

:

It may be part of a

year, maybe a few years.

204

:

And that's okay.

205

:

It's not a bad thing.

206

:

If someone evolves, it's not a bad thing.

207

:

If a program evolves, hopefully all

of these things evolve for the better.

208

:

There can be a shelf life.

209

:

Sometimes there may not be.

210

:

I think it varies.

211

:

There are so many different

variables to consider.

212

:

If someone is running a weekend school

with their spouse, and on top of that,

213

:

they have three or four kids together.

214

:

And that's their main

intention for doing it.

215

:

And then on top of that, they each

have full time work outside of that.

216

:

Eventually it's going

to catch up with them.

217

:

Just realistically speaking,

eventually their kids are going to

218

:

become too old for that program.

219

:

If they keep it to a specific age

range and it remains cemented, or

220

:

maybe they just decide to evolve their

time and efforts based on the ages of

221

:

their children, I think that's fine.

222

:

There's no right or wrong answer.

223

:

It, it depends from person to person.

224

:

On my end, I used to have, I would

say, a lot more love and interest

225

:

when it came to teaching younger kids.

226

:

Tariq: Mm hmm.

227

:

Bilal: And then over time, I've

started to gravitate more towards

228

:

appreciating the in depth conversations

with older youth, the existential

229

:

questions with high school students.

230

:

I've noticed that everyone is different.

231

:

I know some people, they've

been teaching third grade in an

232

:

Islamic school for many years.

233

:

Tariq: Mm hmm.

234

:

Yeah.

235

:

Bilal: And they love it.

236

:

That's their niche and they polish it.

237

:

Alhamdulillah.

238

:

I think it's to each their own.

239

:

What are your thoughts?

240

:

Let me turn it back

241

:

in your direction.

242

:

Tariq: Well, I felt like you were peeking

at my book with the example that you gave.

243

:

Almost 80 percent of that

was like my circumstance.

244

:

My wife and I started the weekend school

along with four other committed educators,

245

:

because our children, we, we, we didn't

really feel like they had access.

246

:

We wanted to make sure it wasn't

just rote memorization, but

247

:

also culturally responsive.

248

:

That was an important element for us.

249

:

So we engaged on this.

250

:

I was blessed to be around

all of these educators.

251

:

And, you know, we did that for five years.

252

:

And unfortunately, I had to

tap out because I was selected.

253

:

I became the Imam of the Masjid and didn't

have the bandwidth to continue doing that.

254

:

it became, ok we have to look at

255

:

The broader picture, I've continued

to enjoy working with young people,

256

:

but life circumstances have kind of

pushed me, you know, on a personal

257

:

note, I agree with you, like the way

that you laid it out, but have pushed

258

:

me in a different direction where I

can't focus on just one demographic.

259

:

That I'm responsible for looking

at the entirety of the community.

260

:

So, so yeah, I, I agree.

261

:

Some folks, that's just their passion.

262

:

And they will always be in that third

grade classroom, happy and energetic.

263

:

Some folks burn out.

264

:

But I think the burnout

265

:

is not necessarily for Islamic schools.

266

:

I'm thinking just about

education writ large.

267

:

I think often when you do not have

structures that support educators.

268

:

And support the actual acquisition of

knowledge and character development

269

:

holistically, then you will find

people who feel like they're Sisyphus

270

:

pushing the boulder up the hill.

271

:

I don't get there, I can't get

there, I don't have the support.

272

:

And that can contribute to

some of the burnout that I see.

273

:

So, I agree with you, I

agree with your assessment.

274

:

It did resonate with me how your

life's circumstances can change

275

:

your perspective on things.

276

:

Bilal: Allah has the most beautiful

names, so call upon him by them.

277

:

One of Allah's names is Al Hadi.

278

:

Allah is the guide.

279

:

Maybe Allah is just guiding us through

different parts of our journey.

280

:

And maybe that's what he wants

from us during that time.

281

:

What does Allah want from me?

282

:

I think it's an important

question for people to reflect

283

:

on in many different ways.

284

:

Let's say there's someone

Looking to get married.

285

:

One of the main questions

that should be on their mind.

286

:

What does Allah want from me?

287

:

And if I do that, maybe it can facilitate

this situation that I'm asking Allah for.

288

:

Tariq: Right.

289

:

Bilal: That's just one example, but

it can apply to any arena of life.

290

:

And I'm gonna give you your flowers.

291

:

When it comes to imaming.

292

:

It's a massive, invisible

mountain on the shoulders of

293

:

the imam and the imam's family.

294

:

It's a big responsibility.

295

:

There are many challenges

that come with it.

296

:

There's so much

responsibility that's unseen.

297

:

People don't realize.

298

:

People think, oh, the

imam does A, B, and C.

299

:

No, no, no, imam does A through Z

and that's just the English alphabet.

300

:

Having served in that type of role

for about a decade, it's no joke.

301

:

So may Allah bless you and your family.

302

:

And

303

:

Tariq: you and yours, because I must

say that, that that's, that's spoken.

304

:

Those are words spoken from experience.

305

:

Yeah,

306

:

Bilal: that is from one heart to another.

307

:

Tariq: So you talked about how your mother

really was the example for you in terms

308

:

of what it meant to be of service and

how you just feel like a natural thing.

309

:

And I believe you and I share this.

310

:

And in common, my mother

gave me very similar example.

311

:

She taught at the Sister Clara

Muhammad School, where I went.

312

:

She was the head of the local school

council at my younger sister's

313

:

school when she got to school.

314

:

Been teaching in schools

for over 40 years.

315

:

That example, it's powerful.

316

:

Was there a point where You ran from that?

317

:

And if so, how was it reconciled?

318

:

Bilal: What a question.

319

:

I would break it down into two parts.

320

:

One is the before, and

then two is the during.

321

:

So before, doors were opened in

connection with teaching at an

322

:

Islamic school, serving as an imam,

323

:

and other roles along the way.

324

:

If his teaching In an afterschool

program and other roles, my law

325

:

except all the time and effort from

all of us, from my perspective, that

326

:

wasn't plan a, it had nothing to do

with, Oh, I don't see it as something

327

:

worthy of respect or no, I definitely,

328

:

I,

329

:

I was raised in a way where there

has to be the utmost respect for

330

:

religious leadership, for scholarship,

for knowledge, for teachers, when

331

:

it came to what I saw myself doing,

my initial intention During college

332

:

was because I was born and raised

in Santa Clara, San Jose, which is

333

:

commonly referred to as Silicon Valley.

334

:

So my initial intention was,

okay, study communications

335

:

for an undergraduate degree.

336

:

And then when it came to internships.

337

:

I'll look to intern at any one of the

million companies in Silicon Valley.

338

:

And Allah facilitated things where,

Alhamdulillah, my grades were okay.

339

:

I knew several people in different

companies that had good positions.

340

:

But when it came to internships, There

was this invisible brick wall just things

341

:

were not opening up during that time

frame one of my mentors Who was on several

342

:

different boards including the masjid

including care including like God knows

343

:

How many at the time he reached out to me?

344

:

And said, Hey, we're looking

for someone for this position.

345

:

Would you be interested?

346

:

So I prayed Istikhara and

I got to do something.

347

:

So I'm knocking on this door and it's

not opening this door, not on my door.

348

:

And okay, Bismillah.

349

:

That was a step in that

direction when it came to work.

350

:

It wasn't something that I was actively

pursuing, but it ended up being

351

:

something that was actively pursuing me.

352

:

And I say that with humility, I

say that with the understanding

353

:

that it's a big responsibility.

354

:

Once things started to become clear

that maybe this is something Allah

355

:

wants from me, let me take a step

back and reflect and assess things.

356

:

So there was the intention of

realigning and readjusting.

357

:

If this is what Allah wants for me,

then I don't really have a choice.

358

:

Sometimes Allah gives you a choice

and sometimes Allah doesn't give

359

:

you a choice in certain things.

360

:

It seemed to be the only way or the

primary way at the time, and then along

361

:

the road, especially when it came to

serving as an imam, a month into that

362

:

role, I was like, forget this, I'm out,

363

:

because I saw firsthand what it was

like to be treated worse than dirt.

364

:

That's terrible.

365

:

How real do we want to keep this?

366

:

Keep it real.

367

:

Tariq: Keep it real.

368

:

We should have a cry break here.

369

:

There's a poor imam who's

listening and that just,

370

:

Just broke him down.

371

:

It's not right.

372

:

And

373

:

Bilal: actually, along the way,

I had seen in my teachers, I

374

:

had seen how they were treated.

375

:

unfavorably, how they

were treated terribly.

376

:

You know, we can talk offline

for some stories in detail,

377

:

which I'd rather not share here.

378

:

But the point in the background,

in my mind, part of the idea of

379

:

I don't want to become an Imam.

380

:

I don't want to go in

because I saw firsthand,

381

:

for

382

:

example, after one prayer.

383

:

Someone just coming at the

imam sideways and attacking him

384

:

over some tiny issue and fit

385

:

pause.

386

:

You're a grown man.

387

:

He's a grown man.

388

:

Talk to him like a grown man.

389

:

Tariq: Yeah,

390

:

Bilal: even if you disagree, you

can communicate respectfully.

391

:

But there were so many instances

in which I saw unfortunate.

392

:

Sometimes it may have been

from community members.

393

:

Sometimes it may have been from board

members who never studied any fit.

394

:

They took what they were familiar with

growing up in whichever part of the world.

395

:

And then they want to, because in their

minds, Oh, if I'm a quote unquote,

396

:

doctor engineer, then of course

I'm the one with real intelligence.

397

:

So of course, if I am familiar

with something different in fit.

398

:

Of course, I have the right to superimpose

that 50 position on the imam, even though

399

:

they've dedicated 20 plus years and

I've dedicated nothing when it comes to

400

:

actual studying, it's, it's unacceptable.

401

:

So, yeah.

402

:

Yeah, so within a month, I was like, man,

I'm, I'm, I'm trying to go teach English

403

:

overseas in one of these gulf countries.

404

:

So I actually took steps and

got certified to teach ESL.

405

:

That was one of the situations, long story

short, when I was trying to run from it.

406

:

Tariq: Mm hmm.

407

:

Bilal: And God grabbed me by the

collar gently, but firmly and

408

:

said, no, you're staying here.

409

:

And So

410

:

Tariq: there's a couple of things.

411

:

One, one of the blessings of this

platform is that we get to highlight

412

:

how Muslims are serving here in the

United States of America, right?

413

:

Not abandoning their Muslim ness.

414

:

Not abandoning, you know, those

things that are uniquely and

415

:

quintessentially American either.

416

:

So there's a mix, right?

417

:

There's informing and also educating.

418

:

So I want to throw this back at you, Imam.

419

:

And for our non Muslims, for our

non Muslim audience, there's some

420

:

terminology that you've used.

421

:

I would like for you to Take

a moment to educate that part

422

:

of our, part of our audience.

423

:

You talked about praying istikara.

424

:

Just give a, give a brief

overview of, of what that is.

425

:

Bilal: May Allah bless you.

426

:

I ask for parted at forgiveness

for, for, for folks for having

427

:

not initially translated that.

428

:

The reality is I should have translated

that at the time, Jazakallah khair.

429

:

Istikhara is a prayer seeking

guidance from God when I'm

430

:

making a major decision in life.

431

:

So the gist of it is there's an

actual scripted prayer in Arabic

432

:

that Muslims will recite, will say.

433

:

And I always encourage people, whether

in Arabic or the transliteration

434

:

with English letters, to also

read it in their mother tongue.

435

:

Al Fatiha.

436

:

Whether it's English or any other language

so they feel what they're asking God for.

437

:

Mm hmm It's not just about repeating

the sounds but also connecting with

438

:

the meaning the gist of the prayer

is Dear God, you know, and I don't

439

:

know Regarding this specific matter.

440

:

Please guide me if it's good

for me in this life in the

441

:

next Bring it closer to me.

442

:

Bring me closer to it.

443

:

And if it's bad for me in this

life and the next, keep it from

444

:

me and keep me from it and make me

content with whatever you decide.

445

:

You're leaving it in God's

hands while you take action.

446

:

Applying for jobs for, to get

into this school or that program.

447

:

It could be for marriage, buying

a house, any major life decision.

448

:

It's recommended for someone

to make this specific prayer.

449

:

I love hearing that.

450

:

Tariq: Thank you.

451

:

Bilal: What other terminology did I miss?

452

:

Tariq: You have been on the money.

453

:

You've been, you've been traveling.

454

:

Bilal: Okay.

455

:

If I forget, you know, feel

free to mention it right away

456

:

because it's something that I, I

generally try to be conscious of.

457

:

Sometimes we forget.

458

:

So I would not mind if at any point you

interjected and you were like, can you

459

:

translate the word that you just said?

460

:

Tariq: Praise be to God.

461

:

So you mentioned this idea of.

462

:

Asking, what does God want from you?

463

:

That's the essence of taqwa, having

regard, this consciousness of Allah.

464

:

In the American context, the

culture we have is not one where

465

:

folks are generally framing their

decisions through that type of lens.

466

:

Could you talk a bit about the

importance of that, especially as more

467

:

and more people are being drawn to

and interested in understanding Islam?

468

:

And even if there's nothing Even if

they don't become Muslim proper, but to

469

:

take away this idea of God consciousness

or asking what does God want from me?

470

:

What are your thoughts on

471

:

it?

472

:

Bilal: That is a very good question.

473

:

God bless you for mentioning that.

474

:

I think one of the main things

that actually draws people

475

:

into Islam or back into Islam.

476

:

Maybe they left for one reason or another.

477

:

Usually, it has to do with some

kind of bitterness, some kind

478

:

of sourness coming from Muslims,

not necessarily Islam itself.

479

:

I think that connection with God

directly, the general, simple,

480

:

beautiful practice of dhikr, remembrance

of God, Islam is so simple, yet

481

:

so deep and pure and beautiful.

482

:

I think the product speaks for itself.

483

:

So people are drawn to this.

484

:

You know, if someone has a, what the

nation of Islam, they, I'm not aware of

485

:

current circumstances, but back in the

time of Malcolm, a lot of you see on him.

486

:

What was it like delis or bakeries?

487

:

Oh, yeah.

488

:

Tariq: There were supermarkets

that were, of course, the farm.

489

:

There were the bakeries.

490

:

I have a pretty good memory.

491

:

71st street here in Chicago.

492

:

Uh, uh, brother Saeed's.

493

:

He had a, uh, Fish market and but the

grocery store was a staple in every

494

:

community where Muslims were okay,

and maybe of other businesses as well

495

:

Bilal: Okay, what would you

say is the best kind of pie?

496

:

Tariq: Oh brother?

497

:

That's come on now First of all

are you trying to put me at risk

498

:

of losing my black Muslim card my

499

:

bean pie bean pie

500

:

Hands down.

501

:

Bilal: So next time I come to

Chicago, take me to the place.

502

:

Just let me cover the bean pie.

503

:

The first time we can negotiate.

504

:

If there's a spot that sells the best bean

pies you've ever had, does anyone ever

505

:

have to go and force feed them to anyone?

506

:

Tariq: Oh, no,

507

:

Bilal: never.

508

:

Tariq: No,

509

:

Bilal: you'll find people lining up

out the door in the cold because.

510

:

That product speaks for itself.

511

:

That's right.

512

:

So now, in this analogy, if

we replace the bean pie with

513

:

Islam, Islam speaks for itself.

514

:

So people are coming for that taste, that

sweetness, that soul food, that nutrition.

515

:

Now here's the thing.

516

:

If there's someone working at

that supermarket, that deli, that

517

:

bakery, you name it, outside,

518

:

swearing at people, I don't

care how good the bean pie is

519

:

you have inside, I'm leaving.

520

:

You're not getting my business.

521

:

That's right.

522

:

That's where a lot of people often

find themselves who have left Islam.

523

:

Usually it's not because

of the pie itself.

524

:

It's because of that person

outside who has no manners

525

:

and

526

:

doesn't know how to treat people.

527

:

If you have a business and

you have customers, I don't

528

:

care how the customer looks.

529

:

I don't care how you're

here for this product.

530

:

I hope you enjoy it.

531

:

Um, anyways, we got to

bring it full circle.

532

:

You were asking, forgive

me and my tangents.

533

:

You were asking, uh, something

related to, uh, Lord help me.

534

:

Tariq: The idea of asking,

what does God want from me?

535

:

Bilal: Yes.

536

:

Thank

537

:

you.

538

:

Tariq: Right.

539

:

Bilal: May Allah bless your brain cells.

540

:

The three that I have left are struggling.

541

:

Tariq: It's like a broke

clock is right twice a day.

542

:

Bilal: Okay, so I can

read between the lines.

543

:

What you're telling me is,

Bilal, you have two brain cells.

544

:

Tariq: I'm talking about mine.

545

:

Bilal: Alhamdulillah.

546

:

The sweetness of that bean pie of

Islam is what brings people to it.

547

:

And most of that sweetness is found

in the dhikr remembrance of Allah.

548

:

So when it comes to acknowledging

and realizing that God is Haqq.

549

:

God is real.

550

:

God is the truth.

551

:

Therefore, let me lean on him

and his guidance and his favor

552

:

and God is always listening.

553

:

One of the worst things that people

may preach from the podium, from

554

:

the pulpit, You are so sinful.

555

:

God will never forgive you.

556

:

Which God are you talking about?

557

:

That's not my God in the Quran.

558

:

Tariq: That's right.

559

:

Bilal: So even if there's a Muslim

preacher on the pulpit giving that

560

:

message, Directly or indirectly,

that problem is within them.

561

:

I say that because God

is always listening.

562

:

God is As Sameer, going back to his names.

563

:

God is Al Ghafoor, the most forgiving.

564

:

Al Ghafir, Al Ghaffar.

565

:

Out of all of the names that

we know of Allah, of God, um,

566

:

highest number of names that have to do

with one specific topic is forgiveness.

567

:

All three of these have to do with

God's forgiveness, God's perpetual

568

:

forgiveness, God forgiving the

big things and the small things.

569

:

There has to be this sense

of hope and redemption.

570

:

Islam is a deen of hope and redemption and

love and kindness and mercy and generosity

571

:

like sharing bean pies with each other.

572

:

The sweetness of Islam speaks for itself,

oftentimes, when it comes to us as

573

:

Muslims, sometimes even when it comes to

the importance of the role of the imam.

574

:

There are like 20 different

hats that you got to wear.

575

:

And that's just within

a 10 minute timeframe.

576

:

Sometimes it's not just about

encouraging people to come closer to God.

577

:

A part of it is also about, dear

God, don't let me be a barrier

578

:

between this person and you.

579

:

Don't let me get in the way of this person

wanting to come closer to your messenger.

580

:

Either help me to facilitate

something good, or maybe I need to

581

:

get out of the way and just leave it

582

:

be.

583

:

Tariq: Let me ask you,

first of all, I love that.

584

:

I love.

585

:

Hearing that as a reminder for myself,

and I think that is so important.

586

:

What I'm speaking about is, O Allah O

God, do not let me be a barrier between

587

:

somebody else and you, and I think

it hits , even harder for those who

588

:

are in leadership positions because.

589

:

You can kind of have this de facto

assumption, I'm doing good stuff, you

590

:

know, that I've got good intentions

without thinking about, you know, a lot of

591

:

judges just according to our intentions,

of course, but our good intentions don't

592

:

always manifest as good for other people.

593

:

So I think to be critical,

594

:

Bilal: say it again,

595

:

Tariq: Our good intentions don't

always manifest as good for others.

596

:

It is important for us to

have that level of humility.

597

:

And to be critical of ourselves,

I appreciate you saying it.

598

:

Yes.

599

:

That's very helpful.

600

:

Bilal: The self awareness.

601

:

Yes.

602

:

Self awareness.

603

:

Tariq: Now, there's something that

is very much American that's been a

604

:

part of our historical culture and

that is the intersection of faith.

605

:

And civic engagement, faith and resistance

of the over 250 revolts of enslaved

606

:

folks within the Americas, they were

either led by or assisted by Muslims.

607

:

Many people are not aware of that

presence and what Islam meant.

608

:

When we think about the civil

rights movement, we see that the

609

:

black church in particular was

a big part of that mobilization.

610

:

It was not just about you coming

to the church and you get a

611

:

sermon and you're on your way.

612

:

It was like, how do we bring our

faith into the public square and

613

:

advocate for our human rights?

614

:

When it comes to Muslims here

in the United States of America,

615

:

what is your take on the role

of the Imam in light of what?

616

:

Many, and it wasn't just the, the

pastors, the, you know, the reverence,

617

:

you know, it was a real team effort.

618

:

Now, a lot of sisters did not get

the recognition they deserved as a

619

:

part of that, but when it comes to.

620

:

Imams here in the United States

of America, as it relates to civic

621

:

engagement, do you think that there

is a disconnect between that kind of

622

:

model where faith is intertwined with,

or at least expresses itself in a

623

:

push for justice in the public space?

624

:

Bilal: I think it has to be.

625

:

I think it absolutely has to be.

626

:

Islam is not just a religion of mercy.

627

:

Let me complete the statement.

628

:

Islam is not just a religion of mercy.

629

:

It's also a religion of justice.

630

:

And actually that justice is

interlinked with the mercy.

631

:

It's not one or the other.

632

:

No, no, no.

633

:

Within the beauty of the example of

Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings

634

:

be upon him, you find the justice

of Moses and the mercy of Jesus.

635

:

intertwined.

636

:

When it comes to political activism, you

know, Imam Dawood Waleed in Michigan, he's

637

:

an Imam and also the executive director

of Care Michigan, which focuses on the

638

:

civil rights of Muslims in this country.

639

:

When you look at Imam Suhaib Webb,

shout out to Imam Suhaib, one of our

640

:

dear, beloved teachers and mentors.

641

:

May Allah bless him always.

642

:

He's at the forefront.

643

:

And.

644

:

It's been consistently in his sermons,

in his teachings, in his lectures.

645

:

Tariq: Go ahead.

646

:

Can I, can I interrupt you, Imam?

647

:

I may have lacked the clarity I intended.

648

:

Not so much as it's justice being part of

the faith , but do you think that broadly

649

:

speaking, this is something that is being.

650

:

Emulated by the rank and file email.

651

:

I know your response would probably be

anecdotal, but from your perception,

652

:

do you think that's something that's

been engaged across the board?

653

:

Bilal: I think there's a

654

:

spectrum and I would argue the, uh,

correct side of the spectrum would be

655

:

To be more involved as opposed to less

involved, engaging the system as opposed

656

:

to not, especially when it comes to

very, very clear common sense issues.

657

:

I disagree.

658

:

Tariq: I've

659

:

never been on that train.

660

:

Bilal: Did.

661

:

Malcolm have a talk that

the ballot or the bullet.

662

:

Tariq: That's right.

663

:

Yeah.

664

:

Bilal: So what I think I was trying

to reference is some living examples.

665

:

When you look at Imam Dawood Waleed, Imam

Suleiman, so on and so forth, there are

666

:

several that are active and outspoken and

involved leading the way in that regard.

667

:

And I would say that's

the right direction.

668

:

Tariq: I want to shift gears

a little bit because we do

669

:

want to shine light on Bayan.

670

:

You said you're in a niche program, right?

671

:

You're doing Islamic education.

672

:

One of the educational offerings

that we have is Bayon On Demand.

673

:

Have you had an opportunity to, to engage

674

:

with that platform?

675

:

Bilal: That's my initial introduction

to Bayon several years ago was through

676

:

Bayon On Demand and specifically Dr.

677

:

Sherman Jackson's Recorded course

on Islam and black America from

678

:

slavery to hip hop over the years.

679

:

I've combed through one of the

biggest things people don't

680

:

realize when it comes to emamming.

681

:

I use that as a verb.

682

:

I love them.

683

:

We should get shirts.

684

:

Hashtag Imamming,

685

:

uh, Imam life.

686

:

There's so much preparation that

goes into preparing a short talk

687

:

that goes into preparing a sermon.

688

:

That goes into preparing a

lecture, a course, a discussion.

689

:

Preparation is the name of the game.

690

:

And I'll tie that in with the

example you gave of ballplayers.

691

:

There's so much time that these athletes

spend investing in their meals, their

692

:

bodies, their sleep, and their routines.

693

:

So if someone says, LeBron, for

example, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant,

694

:

they make this amount of money.

695

:

How much time are they putting in?

696

:

What's their impact?

697

:

My point is, why did I initially spend

time watching that lecture series by Dr.

698

:

Sherman Jackson, as well as many other

series that are on band on demand?

699

:

Why was I doing it then?

700

:

Because I needed to tap into as

many online, practically accessible

701

:

resources for the sake of preparation.

702

:

As well as nutrition, just

for myself and growth.

703

:

So that was my initial

introduction to BAYAN.

704

:

Over time, I learned more about the

different degree programs that BAYAN

705

:

offered and continues to offer.

706

:

BAYAN has been on my radar for

several years before I took the time

707

:

to apply at the beginning of 2023.

708

:

I encourage people to check out

BAYAN On Demand, to subscribe.

709

:

With the intention of not just benefiting

yourself, learn something yourself, and

710

:

then bring that benefit to your dinner

table, bring that benefit to your masjid,

711

:

to a halaqah, and so on and so forth.

712

:

There's so much rich content.

713

:

It's an unbelievable gem of a resource.

714

:

I was not paid to say that

715

:

Tariq: the bean pie that I'm going

to give it is, that's just all love,

716

:

Bilal: all love.

717

:

I'm going to let the first round is on me.

718

:

Inshallah,

719

:

Tariq: you said something there that

720

:

I think could possibly transform

the way people approach knowledge.

721

:

The pursuit of knowledge is a preparation.

722

:

The way that you phrased that

was really beautiful because.

723

:

It's not just about you standing up in

front of 50 people, 500 people, right?

724

:

It could be 5, 000.

725

:

But to think about the regular

interactions that we have or the

726

:

unplanned interactions that we have,

maybe that are one on one conversations

727

:

and preparing for those moments.

728

:

We don't know when those moments

are going to happen, right?

729

:

To prepare ourselves for those and to

see, I may pick up some useful information

730

:

that I can share with somebody that will.

731

:

That could alter their trajectory, you

know, it could alter their perception.

732

:

that's a tremendously powerful.

733

:

Observation and articulation,

you looked at it as preparation,

734

:

Bilal: 90 percent of it is preparation.

735

:

And when I say preparation, at some

point, maybe we can put our heads

736

:

together and put together some kind of

a masterclass for what it's like for

737

:

Imams behind the scenes, especially for

younger Imams, especially for people who

738

:

may be thinking of going down that path.

739

:

Let us give you a glimpse so you

can make an educated decision.

740

:

I'm going to quote Imam Suhaib,

who quoted Imam Siraj Wahaj.

741

:

Thorough, proper preparation for

Friday's sermon is 14 to 15 hours.

742

:

For one sermon, that may be 20 30 minutes.

743

:

See, people may not realize, and

that's if you're giving it the

744

:

golden standard of what it's due.

745

:

That's what it would be.

746

:

Tariq: I've heard 40.

747

:

Bilal: I believe it.

748

:

I'm not surprised by that.

749

:

Tariq: That's generous.

750

:

That's generous.

751

:

Bilal: There's so, and here's the thing.

752

:

Why is it worth that amount of

time and effort and preparation?

753

:

A person may think the sermon

is 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

754

:

When you look at the potential impact

that it can have, it has to come

755

:

from the heart of the speaker to

reach the hearts of the listeners.

756

:

Tariq: That's right.

757

:

Bilal: So part of the time for

that preparation is not just the

758

:

knowledge and the reading and

the listening and the watching.

759

:

It's also your Quran

and your dhikr, right?

760

:

Because you need to have buoyancy

between the mind and the heart.

761

:

So there's the knowledge, but then

there's also how is my heart doing?

762

:

It's not just about the reading

and that's very important.

763

:

It's a very important component.

764

:

But also How is my state, my

internal spiritual state, how

765

:

is my had, how is my condition?

766

:

There may be some rust over here,

especially if I want to talk

767

:

about something, I better be

practicing it behind the scenes.

768

:

Tariq: Absolutely.

769

:

Bilal: So when it comes to the 40 hours.

770

:

It's very possible.

771

:

And what's the benefit?

772

:

We've all been there.

773

:

We attend a khutbah,

especially in our youth.

774

:

And we may still remember

one line from that sermon.

775

:

Years and years later, the potential

that platform has is unparalleled.

776

:

If any Muslim community, if any

masjid can lock in and really give

777

:

proper due to the Friday sermons by

investing in them in terms of resources.

778

:

Time, money, then that's the

first and biggest domino.

779

:

If that's done right, everything

else will fall in line, inshallah.

780

:

Hmm.

781

:

You're gonna find people wanting to live

close to that mosque because they're

782

:

busy with work and family and life.

783

:

So that the time they carve out in their

week for the masjid oftentimes is Jummah.

784

:

Right.

785

:

If that time is beneficial for me,

And I appreciate it and I understand

786

:

it and I like it and it's not just

telling me what I want to hear,

787

:

but sometimes what I need to hear

788

:

Tariq: right

789

:

Bilal: there's a balance between

the carrot and the stick.

790

:

You find people selling their house

out in the boonies to buy a smaller

791

:

place closer to that location because

of what it does for them spiritually.

792

:

If that element in a

community space is done right.

793

:

There's so much gain.

794

:

There's so much benefit.

795

:

I

796

:

Tariq: think that's a

great way to close out.

797

:

I would not be surprised if this

winds up coming out in tomorrow's

798

:

football, because there's that

preparation that the man undergoes.

799

:

And then there's also the preparation

that the community should be undergoing

800

:

and that puts you in an optimal space

to make the most out of that gym.

801

:

Cause hearts also have

to be ready to receive.

802

:

I really appreciate it.

803

:

Bilal: There's a beautiful friend.

804

:

Brother, African American in

the Sacramento area, his name

805

:

happens to be Muhammad El Amin.

806

:

He used to come to me frequently

after my Jumma Khutba, my Friday

807

:

sermon, and he would say, Imam, you

talked about something so specific.

808

:

It's as if you knew what's

going on in my life.

809

:

I said, what do you mean?

810

:

He said, you mentioned this exact

story and I was just talking

811

:

to my dad about it yesterday.

812

:

You mentioned this specific person.

813

:

Mentioned in the Quran, I was just

talking to my friend this morning who has

814

:

that same name, and it's a unique name.

815

:

I told him, you get out of Jummah

what you put into it, meaning

816

:

the same exact talk that I gave.

817

:

Someone else is walking out of

here thinking to themselves, man,

818

:

I didn't get anything out of that.

819

:

If your heart is open to receive,

you're gonna find, if you're

820

:

sincere, then you're going to find

different things happening like that.

821

:

But that, that credit goes to him.

822

:

'cause he showed up with an open

heart and an open mind and so

823

:

he walked away with something.

824

:

So it has to meet in the middle that

Imam does the imam's part, but then the

825

:

community has to do their part as well.

826

:

Tariq: Alhamdulillah.

827

:

Bilal: We can, we can

share stories offline, man.

828

:

Yeah.

829

:

Alhamdulillah.

830

:

Tariq: Well, Imam Bilal Elsakka, it has

been a pleasure talking to you again.

831

:

I really appreciate you making the

time, your insights that you've shared.

832

:

May I continue to bless you in

all the work that you're doing?

833

:

All of us.

834

:

Yeah.

835

:

Increase you in your

capacity so you can do more.

836

:

Bilal: laughing....

837

:

All right.

838

:

Tariq: I appreciate it.

839

:

Bilal: If Allah facilitates things and

makes things happen, then Allah can make.

840

:

What is normally difficult easy.

841

:

Tariq: Mm hmm.

842

:

Bilal: I'm very lucky.

843

:

Absolutely.

844

:

Thank you If I'm talking I mean for

the time and the opportunity All right

845

:

Tariq: family all good things must come

to an end for a little while We'll be

846

:

back next week inshallah with God's

permission, and we hope that you will join

847

:

us then but until then Remember that you

can support the work of the an islamic

848

:

graduate school by becoming a member of

the bayan learning community Get yourself

849

:

a subscription to Bayan On Demand.

850

:

And while you're at it,

get one for a loved one.

851

:

And get one for that person that

you seem to always be at odds with.

852

:

It just might be the thing

that smooths things over.

853

:

So, 10 a month, bayanonline.

854

:

org, bayanonline.

855

:

org.

856

:

Look forward to seeing you next week.

857

:

I'm your host, Imam Tariq El- Amin.

858

:

And until then, assalamu alaykum.

859

:

May the peace that only

God can give be upon you.

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for The American Muslim Podcast

About the Podcast

The American Muslim Podcast
The voices, stories, and perspectives shaping the American Muslim Experience
The Muslim American Podcast is your gateway to exploring the diverse and dynamic stories shaping the American Muslim experience. Presented by Bayan On Demand, this podcast shines a spotlight on the voices of leaders who are making a profound impact in their communities—many of whom are students, alumni, and visiting faculty of Bayan Islamic Graduate School.

From imams and chaplains to Islamic school leaders, teachers, scholars, and non-profit pioneers, we celebrate those who dedicate themselves to serving others. These inspiring individuals include masjid leaders, community activists, and youth mentors who exemplify the values of faith, compassion, and resilience in their work.

Through insightful conversations and authentic narratives, we explore how these leaders navigate faith, identity, and service, offering a unique perspective on the evolving role of American Muslims in shaping society. Join us to uncover the stories of those who lead with purpose and embody the transformative mission of Bayan.

About your host

Profile picture for Tariq El-Amin

Tariq El-Amin

Imam Tariq I. El-Amin serves as the Resident Imam of Masjid Al-Taqwa in Chicago, IL. He is the founder of the Chicago Black Muslim History Tour and the former host of Sound Vision's Radio Islam, a nightly talk radio program that aired in the Chicago market. Tariq is a recipient of the Muhammad Ali Scholarship and earned a Master of Divinity in Islamic Chaplaincy from Bayan Islamic Graduate School in 2022. He is currently pursuing a Doctorate of Ministry in Islamic Community Leadership at Bayan, with expected completion in 2026. Tariq is also a producer of the award-winning UIC Black Excellence podcast, hosted by Dr. Aisha El-Amin, and lends his voice to narrating audiobooks.