Episode 4

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Published on:

6th Feb 2025

Picked Up Twice: A Journey Through Islam, Community, and Responsibility

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In this episode of the American Muslim Podcast presented by Bayan On Demand, host Imam Tariq El-Amin becomes the guest, reflecting on his journey and the influences that shaped him. He delves into the importance of community, leadership, and the significant impact of his parents and educators. El-Amin shares poignant anecdotes, including his childhood interactions with Muhammad Ali and his educational journey supported by the Muhammad Ali scholarship at Bayan Islamic Graduate School. The episode underscores the mission of Bayan in providing accessible, high-quality education for Muslim leaders and practitioners already serving their communities. Imam Tarq advocates for continuous self-improvement, community service, and connects his role as a  storyteller as a key component of his leadership.

00:00 Introduction to Bayan On Demand

00:59 Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast

01:12 Flipping the Script: Host Becomes Guest

02:40 Reflecting on Self Development and Spiritual Care

05:41 The Importance of Vulnerability in Conversations

06:21 Balancing Authenticity and Influence

10:28 The Role of Family in Personal Formation

17:31 Legacy of Imam Warith Deen Mohammed

26:40 The Impact of Clara Muhammad on Education

31:25 The Power of Subconscious Leadership

32:05 The Importance of Shared History

33:20 Chicago Black Muslim History Tour

34:18 Sober-Minded Thinking and Public Participation

36:18 The Legacy of Muhammad Ali

39:22 Pursuing Higher Education and Community Service

40:45 The Muhammad Ali Scholarship

43:58 Reflections on Religion and Unity


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Subscribe to Bayan on demand at https://shorturl.at/wlQl7

Donate to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship at https://pages.donately.com/bayan/campaign/2028-endowment-campaign/donate



Cover Art & Intro Music - Tariq I. El-Amin

Transcript
Speaker:

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org to get more information.

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As salamu alaykum.

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May the peace that only

God can give be upon you.

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Welcome to the American Muslim

podcast presented by Bayan On Demand.

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I'm your host, Imam Tariq El Amin.

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And today we're going to do

something a little bit different.

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Now, typically, I'm the one who asks

the questions, attempting to guide

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the conversation and to draw out the

stories of our guests, but this time

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we're going to flip the script a bit.

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I'm in the guest seat.

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So, to start, I want to remind myself

and you on this platform where we invite

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Muslim men and women across the nation

who serve in a variety of forms, some

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locally, some nationally, Some in the

public space and some of the private

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space, but however they serve, they

are answering the call of leadership.

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And the beauty of what we hope

to present is not just the work

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that they do, but also to give a

window into their origin story.

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To learn a bit about the journey, to

learn about the mentors, to learn about

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who they are, how have they been formed.

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Now, you've probably heard the saying

before that doctors make the worst

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patients, doctors make the worst patients.

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So I think about what I invite our

guests to each week, and that is to be

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as open, as vulnerable, as transparent

as they are comfortable being.

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And now that I am in the guest seat.

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It feels a little bit different.

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And I think a good way to start is by

reflecting off of this prompt from Dr.

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Camila Moutman Osaguera.

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She teaches a class, Self

Development and Spiritual Care.

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And I recall taking this class.

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As I was working towards my Master of

Divinity and Islamic Chaplaincy at Bayan.

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And I think that this is just a great way

to frame the way we see ourselves because

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we don't always see ourselves clearly.

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Or what has gone into the making of us

and positioning us where we are is not

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always apparent to us right in the moment.

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It takes introspection.

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So that was one of the wonderful

outcomes of taking that class.

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It was to be more introspective and

more deliberate in that introspection.

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So, let's take a moment to

listen to this clip from Dr.

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Kameela Mu'min Oseguera I do believe

that God, however that feels for you

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and your tradition, um, has placed

us in this room together for a very

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particular reason and with a purpose.

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And the things that we discover

together are all for some purpose that

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may not unfold for us in this moment.

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But in the future, inshallah, it could

be in another generation, we don't know.

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And so it's, it's our job to be open to

discovering what that reason might be.

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And so as you open up your heart to

yourself first, right, and then to other

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people in the room to really, you know,

be present and understand what everyone

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is bringing, right, the richness,

the depth, the history, the stories.

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This is why the self care, self

development is so important.

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Because yes, we can read your

bios, and they're all impressive.

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They all have something of value

and of benefit to many, many

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communities and individuals.

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But how often do you get to

sit and learn, Who am I really?

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What do I enjoy?

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What's something that really

resonates with me as fundamental

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to who I am, but I hardly share it?

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And so there are so many aspects of

who we are that kind of get closed in.

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We build up these walls.

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And so, while there are places

that you're like, I'm an open book.

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I love to help people and I want

to be of service and, you know,

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I want to get to know others.

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There are also people who are

like, I want to get to know you.

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Who are you, this unique individual?

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What has brought you, all

of these experiences, have

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brought you to this moment?

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One of the first things that jumps

out at me from this clip from Dr.

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Camilo's class is really thinking

about how much is too much.

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There is such a thing as TMI, right?

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Too much information in service of

what we want to accomplish here.

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And I think that our very

first episode, if you did not

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hear it, go back and listen.

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Our founding president of Bayan

Islamic Graduate School, Dr.

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Jehad Turk, he led with vulnerability.

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And since then, that's something

I've really wanted to make sure

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that we included or to make a

staple of all of our conversations.

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It's inviting our guest to be vulnerable,

to be transparent, to share their

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journey in hopes that people have a

greater appreciation, not just for the

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work that they do, but to appreciate

the humanity of these men and women.

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As for myself in the public space, and

it's very difficult to get away from it.

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And it, I'm talking about social

media and we all, I should not say

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we all, but many of us engage it.

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To different degrees and one of the

things that I've always kept in mind is

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I do not want to become a caricature.

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I don't want to become this hollowed

out or one sided representation

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of myself because I'm, I'm not

here for branding purposes.

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And I guess you could say that

anti branding or counterculture is

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in itself a form of branding, but

I really do try to be authentic.

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And who I am as a father, as a brother,

uh, as an Imam, as a son, as a, friend,

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, as somebody with a sense of humor, as

somebody who likes to share stories.

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I try to be authentically me

and present that in a way that

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shows a regular human being.

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And I think that's one of the traps

that it's very easy to get caught into.

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Uh, particularly for those who find

themselves in leadership positions or

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positions where there is some influence.

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And we know we have the

big I and the little I.

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By that I mean your influence may reach

only over four or five people, right?

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Or you may have influence that

reaches millions of people.

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But either way, when we

begin to think about how.

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How whatever we say, or what we do, or

what we post, or how we present ourself

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is going to be met with those we imagine

ourselves to have influence over.

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It can almost become one of

those situations where it

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becomes the tail wagging the dog.

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It becomes performative, and that's

something that I never want to be.

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Which is kind of funny because when I also

think about the clip and I think of who

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are those who have poured And to me, how,

or in terms of how did this moment even

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come to be, how did I come to be the, the

host and the producer of this particular

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program, or how did I come to serve as the

Imam of Masjid al Taqwa here in Chicago?

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How did I come to all of these different

spaces that I serve in or occupy?

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Was it just my personal motivation?

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Absolutely not.

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Absolutely not.

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I have to begin by sharing that I

believe that despite the tendency

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to wrap ourselves in this idea of

rugged individualism and American

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exceptionalism, the idea of being

self made and self sufficient, we

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know that it is exactly the opposite.

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That we are not self made.

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We are not self sufficient.

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We are not independent.

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As a Muslim, I know that all of these

descriptions, all of these attributes

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go back to Allah, go back to God.

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Allah is the only one who is independent.

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Allah is the only one

who is self sufficient.

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And that means that one of the journeys

or one of the challenges that we're

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invited to take on is to be independent.

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Inquisitive.

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And that's also one of the reasons that

I wanted to begin with that particular

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clip, because it's an invitation to self

inquisition, to think about ourselves,

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to think about how we've been shaped.

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So for me, I always go back to the

Hadith, the narration of the prophet

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Muhammad, peace and prayers be

upon him, who responded three times

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with your mother to a man who asked

him, who does he give his honor to?

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Who does he honor first?

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Who does he give his love to first, right?

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Who is the most deserving of that?

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And he replied three times, your mother.

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And on the fourth time,

he said, your father.

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So, for me, when I think about

my formation, when I think about

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what's been poured into me,

I'm gonna begin with my mother.

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And I think about this wonderful

woman, Zakiyyah El Amin, a theater

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arts instructor, a drama teacher,

a playwright, who gathered all

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of these children, myself, my

siblings, my neighbors, my cousins.

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Off of the block, summertime, early, was

it late 70s, early 80s, and gave us lines.

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Had us learning poems from Paul Lawrence

Dunbar and Langston Hughes and Rudia

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Kipling and learning the lines to

original skits that she had wrote.

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And then taking us after we had learned

our lines and practiced and practiced

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and took us to senior homes to perform.

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And watching the eyes of, of these

seniors when we would come in.

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And I recall how some of

them would be wet with tears.

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And they would have these smiles that

would just come over their faces.

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And they were just radiating joy.

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And they would stand up.

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And some would clap vigorously

from their wheelchairs.

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And they would hug us and, and,

and ask for us to come back.

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I remember this today and

understand what I was a part of.

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I was a part of community and

service all at the same time.

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So in the theater, unless you're

doing a one person show, right?

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It's not about the individual.

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Even if you're the lead, you

still have to play off of and

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with other people in the cast.

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I learned some of the most

valuable lessons and was

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sensitized to perceive deep.

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We are conditioned to see communal work

in a different way, to see collaboration

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and connection in different ways, because

what we're conditioned to see here, what

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I have seen, is we're conditioned with

this idea of American exceptionalism,

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this idea of rugged individualism, as I

said earlier, to think that we have built

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ourselves, and also we are conditioned

to see the world through a scarcity lens,

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that there is not enough For all of us

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in the theater and the theater acting

together as a part of a cast, you

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realize at the end of the show,

everybody steps up and we all take a

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bow and we all receive the applause.

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There's enough applause for everyone.

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There's enough.

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That's a huge perception shift

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and being able to go out and share

our preparation to share our teamwork.

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With our elders, with people who have,

unfortunately, and are often left by

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the wayside to be of service to them,

to share the creativity, talent, the

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energy, to share those things with

them, to make their days a bit better.

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That was community and service.

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And my mother did this and has

done this for over 40 years.

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So I didn't know what I was looking at.

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I didn't recognize that.

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My own inclination to share

stories in the way that I do

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actually started with my mother.

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I, and it may sound crazy, but I

hadn't really thought about that.

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I did know that she

taught us how to project.

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She taught us how to articulate.

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She taught us to learn our lines and

to embody, try to embody the character.

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But as Dr.

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Kameelah mentioned, it was

thinking about what are the things.

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That have brought us to this moment.

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So I have to begin with my mother.

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And then I go to my father,

Imam Tariq H El-Amin.

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May Allah have mercy on

him and grant him paradise.

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He returned to Allah in 2012 and I

have followed in his footsteps in

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many, many ways, but it was through

him that I was able to learn what

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resilience and resourcefulness look like.

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I learned what it meant to be a man.

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So my father was an iron worker.

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He was a writer.

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He was a teacher, uh, as I mentioned,

he was a, he was an Imam and I've

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met few people who have the breadth

and depth of knowledge that he had.

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He was a voracious reader.

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I mean, voracious, like really

ate those books up, right?

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He could take a 350, 400 page

book and read it in a night.

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His ability to synthesize, to analyze

information, to connect it to what

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may seem to be unrelated fields.

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Was absolutely astounding and to this

day, his example is an aspiration and,

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and I do consider myself a reader, a

student, perpetual student, but what

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my parents have done for me, , and

I should also mention that my father

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was the, block club president.

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He was the block club president.

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, the work that my parents did for us,

for the community growing up, it was the

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first live examples that I got to see.

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Of leadership, of community building,

of service, all of these things

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in action, all things that I feel

deeply connected to and represent

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what I feel is my life's work.

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It is really me continuing

what they have passed on to me.

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And when I think about who I'm the

beneficiary of, of course, as I mentioned,

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my parents, I'm a second generation

Muslim because of my parents, my parents

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joined the nation of Islam in the 60s.

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And then.

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, at that time under the leadership of

the late honorable Elijah Muhammad, and

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then went on to follow and support the

leadership of Imam Warith Deen Mohammed.

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So family, if you all are not

familiar with the Imam Warith Deen

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Mohammed, the short amount of time

that we have here will not suffice.

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I invite you, I suggest, I encourage

you to do some research, just go to

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the Wikipedia page and look them up.

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But he was the successor to.

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The honorable Elijah Muhammad, he was

responsible in:

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for the largest mass conversion of people

to Islam in the history of this nation.

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And by that, I mean the normative

practices and understandings

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of Islam globally, having

nothing to do with cultural

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influences or representations that you

may find as you move about the world.

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But the Adherence to the belief that

there is no God, but God and Muhammad

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peace and prayers be upon him is his

messenger and seal of the prophets.

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So the belief in , the five pillars,

the, , the core principles of

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Islam, he directed that he moved

the community in that direction.

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He's responsible for that growth

and he built upon the legacy that

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he inherited a legacy of doing for

self, a legacy of economic dignity.

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That now had, , included and presented

Muslims in America, something that

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before that not been realized.

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And that was a pathway

to civic participation.

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He delivered the first

invocation in the U.

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S.

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Senate by Muslim in 1992.

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He addressed the Georgia state

legislature and participated in the

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inaugural interfaith press services

for former President Bill Clinton.

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He met with Pope John Paul

II at the Vatican in 96.

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He addressed Muslims in the U.

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S.

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military and its chaplains.

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He encouraged Muslim Americans

to participate in American

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politics and economics.

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And while, the community spent a great

deal of its time in its development

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as a counterculture organization

that did not participate directly

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in the politics of the nation.

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Under the Imam's leadership, these

are things that he encouraged.

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, civic participation.

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He did all of this while also staying

true to speaking for and encouraging

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the community that he came from

and recognizing the challenges, the

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opportunities, and the unique situation

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When we began to hear Islam in the

public, we knew who had caused that.

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It was the Honorable Elijah Muhammad

and his followers that caused the

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name Islam to be heard in the public.

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That caused the name Muhammad

to be heard in the public.

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And Allah, the name of God, Allah as

we call it, to be heard in the public.

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It was the Honorable Elijah Muhammad

temples of Islam, his followers

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that did that, and I don't think any

of us would disagree that Malcolm.

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Muhammad Ali were, other than Honorable

Elijah Muhammad and our efforts they were

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the two people that did more to popularize

Islam in America than anybody else.

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Malcolm and Muhammad Ali.

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Muhammad Ali because of the situation

he had as the world's greatest fighter.

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And Malcolm because of his youth,

his intelligence, his articulate

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speech, his aggressiveness, his belief

that that what he had deserved an

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audience, deserved public attention,

and his opinion could not be defeated.

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Anyone who knew him personally,

you knew that Malcolm never,

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never anticipated any defeat.

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It didn't come to his mind that

anybody could defeat him, you see.

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So because of that, that,

uh, he became so popular.

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And he helped the army like Muhammad

popularized Muslims in America.

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Yes, I always loved God.

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I always loved the Prophet Muhammad.

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The mention of his name, I didn't

know much about him as a child.

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But I just loved his name.

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I loved the mention of his name.

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And, I love the Honorable Elijah

Muhammad and all the Muslims

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that supported him and loved him.

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I just loved them.

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They were just like, they became

dear to me just like very close

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relatives inside the home.

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And I still feel that same way about them.

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And I also love Uh,

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the,

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I would say,

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how can I put this?

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I love the life

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of a Muslim under the

Honorable Elijah Muhammad.

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I don't know any other way to put it.

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I love the life of a Muslim

under the, I love it.

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Still love it.

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I have retained it.

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Yes.

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The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us not

to drink, not to lie, not to steal, not

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to be dishonest, to respect authority,

to respect ourselves and others.

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The Honorable Elijah

Muhammad taught us a lot.

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He taught us to be good.

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He taught us to, to be industrious.

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He taught us, he taught us to

take our own affairs into our own.

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And that's why I don't

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think anyone is in the audience.

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And went back

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and against the good teachings

that we received from the

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Honorable Elijah Muhammad.

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I never would be where I am now.

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You would never have

supported me like you have.

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Me.

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So I am in debt

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for where I am now.

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So when we talk about America, Islam

in America, I want you to know.

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That we had very wonderful before

we even came to truly know Islam.

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We had a wonderful experience.

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We didn't know Islam.

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Now, thank God for his mercy on us.

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Again, I can say now we know Islam.

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Don't

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be ashamed to say I appreciate the good.

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That Honorable Elijah

Muhammad passed on to me.

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For me, that last sentiment.

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Actually, I won't start at the end.

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I'll start more towards the beginning

and that was the sentiment that.

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Imam Muhammad shared about how he

loved the life and he was referencing

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the community life, the, the spirit

of connection, the spirit of a

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shared purpose, shared history.

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And in that there is something

really beautiful and that's

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something that can be transmitted

from one generation to the next.

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So there's something

really beautiful in that.

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It's, and that's the love of community.

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And I feel like a beneficiary of that.

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So I am an alum of the Sister

Clara Muhammad School System.

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I went there from 1st through 8th grade.

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And the school prior to it being

named after the mother of Imam Warith

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Deen Mohammed it was referred to as

the Muhammad University of Islam.

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And after taking on the position of

leadership in:

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as a refocusing effort that took place.

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Now, what most folks may not know is

that Clara Muhammad was the progenitor.

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She was the, the driving force

behind homeschooling here in

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the United States of America.

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Now I'm going to make some assumptions.

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family that everybody who is listening

is someone who has number one, has

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some curiosity and is a thinker.

362

:

We know the value and the

importance of education.

363

:

And so did Clara Muhammad.

364

:

She understood what W.

365

:

E.

366

:

B Du Bois wrote about and the

miseducation of the Negro, the

367

:

impact of being miseducated, right?

368

:

It is to be deprived of your

dignity is to be deprived of hope.

369

:

It's to be deprived of a vision

of your place in society.

370

:

And she said, over my dead body, right?

371

:

This is in Detroit in the

19, early 20th century.

372

:

And she's telling the truant officers,

the officials, that you are not going

373

:

to be able to miseducate my children.

374

:

No, I'm not going to give my children to

you to fill their heads with nothing and

375

:

for them to see nothing for themselves.

376

:

So she said, no, you're

not taking my children.

377

:

And the result of this stance.

378

:

Is that we now have in the United States

of America, , a continually burgeoning

379

:

growth of homeschool collectives,

cooperatives, associations, where

380

:

parents have taken the responsibility

for educating their children into

381

:

their own hands and honoring the stance

and the commitment to education and

382

:

the preservation of our young minds.

383

:

The school system was named

after Sister Clara Muhammad.

384

:

Today there are at least 20 sister Claire

Muhammad schools within that association.

385

:

And I went to Sister Clara

Muhammad school here in Chicago.

386

:

And one of the greatest things that I feel

like I received from that experience was

387

:

a love for my community, a love for my

own identity and what I bring to the, what

388

:

I bring to the ummah All right, because

this diversity that we have with, within

389

:

the ummah, within the, the community,

the, the collection of Muslim cultures

390

:

and ethnicities and mother tongues,

391

:

the beauty of it is in recognizing those

distinctions and how they compliment

392

:

one another and how we're able , to

learn and benefit from each other.

393

:

And if you don't have a sense of value.

394

:

A sense of self worth, then you actually

are operating at a deficit and being.

395

:

A student there.

396

:

It filled me with a Sense of freedom,

a sense of belonging, where we come to

397

:

grow to learning that we must know our

398

:

for our sister dear.

399

:

Revealing the struggles that we may.

400

:

We have a place to grow today.

401

:

Sister Clara Mohamad,

Clara Muhammad school.

402

:

We'll never forget.

403

:

The lessons we've learned will

take the weight of giving to us

404

:

and give it to others in turn.

405

:

How proud we are to wear her name.

406

:

a memory we hold dear she

already knowledge for us, we.

407

:

All right.

408

:

I was pretty obvious that the brother

did not know the words to the song and he

409

:

wanted to sing along with the children.

410

:

He got himself a little

caught up and that's fine.

411

:

That's fine.

412

:

it was great for me to hear

the song and think about.

413

:

How wonderful a path that lays

for the subconscious mind that

414

:

can manifest itself consciously.

415

:

This idea of preparing oneself for

leadership or preparing oneself to be an

416

:

agent of liberation, to be prepared for

the challenges of life through education.

417

:

It says we'll take the knowledge

given to us and share it with others.

418

:

In turn, these are things really

resonate with me because they are

419

:

specific to our history, the communal

consciousness that has produced

420

:

sayings, like if one can eat, then two

can eat or each one teach one, right?

421

:

These are ingrained in the communal

consciousness because of a shared

422

:

history and what I've always appreciated.

423

:

About my experience at Sister Clara

Muhammad School is that I was not

424

:

taken away from that shared history.

425

:

That history, if anything,

it was preserved.

426

:

It was given a place of importance.

427

:

And it was pointed to as the

impetus for the acquisition.

428

:

Or the accumulation or the

seeking out of knowledge, right?

429

:

This knowledge would

actually serve a purpose.

430

:

It would serve a greater

purpose down the line.

431

:

It wasn't just about that

particular moment, but it was about

432

:

preparing us for what would come.

433

:

Now think about those sayings like

each one, teach one, if one can eat,

434

:

the two can eat thinking about moving

away from the scarcity mindset.

435

:

Are part of the way that I see not

just leadership, but service and

436

:

storytelling one might not necessarily

think of it as a story, but the

437

:

Chicago black Muslim history tour,

which I found in the work with members

438

:

from the masjid al-taqwa community

to facilitate was a biannual tour.

439

:

And we're starting to do more tours.

440

:

For educational institutions outside of

the black history month tour and the one

441

:

we do around Juneteenth, but it is sharing

this very unique history of a community

442

:

that has been here in the Chicagoland

area since:

443

:

the moral, the cultural, the economic

impact that this particular community

444

:

has had the idea of being stewards for

our families, for our neighborhoods.

445

:

For inviting people in, for

trying to clean people up.

446

:

And it's odd how history seems to repeat

itself because I feel like we're in a

447

:

position now that as the public policies

and what is considered to be legal have

448

:

pushed us towards even greater Levels of

intoxication and inebriation, , there is

449

:

just as great a need now as there has ever

been to call people back to sober minded

450

:

thinking, because there's really no way

for people to be active participants in

451

:

society, in governance, there's no way

for people to really be real stewards, not

452

:

just of them, of themselves, but of their

communities and do it with one eye open.

453

:

To do it halfway awake,

to do it stumbling.

454

:

So the messages that were given and that

what we refer to as the first experience

455

:

under the leadership of the Honorable

Elijah Muhammad and continued sober minded

456

:

thinking coupled with the participation

in the public space that Imam Muhammad

457

:

ushered in and was willing to model.

458

:

For us and for American Muslims,

it becomes even more apparent, this

459

:

is an endeavor for the prepared.

460

:

It's for people who understand that

information is a resource, knowledge is

461

:

a resource, and is not one to be hoarded.

462

:

We take it on prepared to share it

because those that we share it with

463

:

may actually end up being the leaders

that are going to have , the impact.

464

:

That's needed to, right the ship.

465

:

Speaking personally, I never look at

things as, you know, I am the, the vessel.

466

:

I'm the one that's going to do X, Y, Z.

467

:

it's a position of grabbing a baton

and then being ready to pass the baton.

468

:

One of the people that I've always

admired and appreciated as millions

469

:

of other people have as well

has been the champ Muhammad Ali.

470

:

I've appreciated him for

a variety of reasons.

471

:

But it's only recently that I've been

able to connect two instances, two

472

:

occasions, separated by about 40 years

and see how Allah continues to bless us

473

:

in ways that we are completely unaware of.

474

:

He gives us remembrance as a way

to tap into and see that blessing.

475

:

So about 40 years ago, I

remember being a Muslim.

476

:

A little boy, seven, eight years

old in the masjid on Chicago

477

:

South side, Stony Island, the big

masjid, everybody is coming there.

478

:

And Muhammad Ali used to come to the

masjid and I don't remember how often

479

:

he came, but I remember him coming

to the masjid enough that on a couple

480

:

of occasions he would see me and he

would pick me up and he would hold me.

481

:

He would see me, pick me up, hold me, and

not just pick me up and hold me and put me

482

:

down, but he would hold me for a minute.

483

:

People would be around.

484

:

And I remember what it

felt like just hanging out.

485

:

And I remember being happy

because I knew who the champ was.

486

:

Everybody knew who the champ was,

487

:

but it wouldn't be until 40

years later that as I am.

488

:

Preparing to do what one of my other

mentors who will have to mention, and

489

:

you know, may Allah accept all of his

good works and give him good in this life

490

:

and the next Imam Sultan Salahuddin, who

told me at the outset, this is probably

491

:

30 years ago, I was working as a youth

mentor, , in the masjid doing youth work.

492

:

I came up to him and asked, well, I'm

interested in, I don't know what made

493

:

me walk up to him and say this, but

his response has always stayed with me.

494

:

He said, qualify yourself because

I asked him, what do I need to do?

495

:

He said, qualify yourself.

496

:

I think that I have been on a

lifetime mission to qualify myself

497

:

and to constantly be engaged

in introspection and constantly

498

:

thinking about what else do I need?

499

:

That I don't have because of the, the

upbringing that I have going back to

500

:

participatory leadership and seeing

leadership in so many different ways.

501

:

I've never put the burden of trying to be

all things to all people on my shoulders.

502

:

I'm always looking for who

complements the mission, who has

503

:

another piece while at the same time.

504

:

Seeking to gain more so

that I can give more.

505

:

So 40 years later, after Muhammad Ali

has picked me up and tell me, I find

506

:

out about Bayan Islamic Graduate School.

507

:

I'm working full time.

508

:

I've got a family.

509

:

I'm serving as the Imam of the

Masjid and now this opportunity comes

510

:

along for me to pursue a Master of

Divinity and Islamic chaplaincy.

511

:

This is right up my alley.

512

:

I can become credentialed.

513

:

I can take classes with reputable

scholars with practitioners.

514

:

I can really be in that space.

515

:

And it's an executive program.

516

:

I can do this online.

517

:

I only have to meet once a term in person.

518

:

I can work that out.

519

:

But where am I going to get the money?

520

:

I can't afford this.

521

:

Not right now.

522

:

I was already in school at one point.

523

:

And the schedule conflicted with my work

schedule and I had to leave school alone.

524

:

This is when I was at

American Islamic College.

525

:

So, and shout out to them as well.

526

:

They're doing great work.

527

:

I've got a lot of love for

my AIC folks over there, but

528

:

it didn't work at that time.

529

:

So the opportunity is here,

but I don't see the access.

530

:

How am I going to hold this up?

531

:

How am I going to do this?

532

:

Enter the Muhammad Ali scholarship.

533

:

The Muhammad Ali scholarship allowed me

to pursue the MDiv on a full time basis

534

:

to complete the program in three years.

535

:

In that process, I was able to expand

myself in ways that I had not expected.

536

:

Knowledge has a way of bringing

about expansion, of giving clarity.

537

:

So I guess that was the expectation.

538

:

But it's just , a beautiful thing to

be witnessed, to be a part of that,

539

:

to have a bird's eye view, to be in

the driver's seat for it to happen.

540

:

So I was able to take classes

like spiritual care and self

541

:

development, adolescent development,

counseling Muslims, nonprofit

542

:

management, history of Islam, Quranic

composition, and many other classes.

543

:

I was able to be in community with other.

544

:

Men and women who have dedicated

themselves to serving their communities.

545

:

And it was an affirming experience,

but it's an experience that I believe

546

:

I appreciate all that much more because

of my upbringing, because of what was

547

:

poured into me to make that connection.

548

:

Just like Muhammad Ali picked me

up as a seven or eight year old.

549

:

He metaphorically picked

me up when I was 47.

550

:

The support of that scholarship.

551

:

Made a difficult journey, worth

it, there has to be some rigor,

552

:

but it made it accessible.

553

:

It opened the doors for me.

554

:

So I like to say that Muhammad Ali

picked me up as a kid and as an adult.

555

:

This is part of the communal legacy.

556

:

This is a part of, for me,

this is what animates me.

557

:

It's telling stories, it's

building community, it's getting

558

:

more so that I can give more.

559

:

I want to encourage you to support the

mission of Bayan Islamic Graduate School

560

:

and share the podcast with others.

561

:

We are with you every week, inshallah,

God willing, please keep me in

562

:

your dua, I will keep you in mind.

563

:

May Allah make it easy for all of us.

564

:

And if it can't be easy,

then Make us stronger.

565

:

You can support the work of

Bayan Islamic Graduate School

566

:

by going to bayan online.org.

567

:

That's bayan online.org.

568

:

B-A-Y-A-N online.org.

569

:

Get a membership to Bayan on Demand.

570

:

You heard it at the very beginning.

571

:

We got 30 classes.

572

:

We're adding more as we go along.

573

:

$10 a month.

574

:

Top-notch scholars, practitioners

that you're learning from.

575

:

Join the Bayan Learning Community.

576

:

Get a membership for

yourself, for your family.

577

:

Get a membership for that person

that's always giving you the side eye.

578

:

You never know.

579

:

This is a great peace offering.

580

:

I like to tell people that.

581

:

The ban on demand is a great peace

offering to give to that person

582

:

that's always looking at you crazy.

583

:

All right.

584

:

With that, we're going to get out of here.

585

:

I'm your host.

586

:

I'm your brother.

587

:

Imam Tariq Al Amin.

588

:

Assalamualaikum.

589

:

We'll even take a chance on saying

he's good or he's halfway good or not.

590

:

It's up to Allah, God, to be the judge.

591

:

So, I'm not gonna say one thing about,

uh, how good I am because I don't know.

592

:

We never get good enough.

593

:

I'm always striving to be right.

594

:

And you asked me another question.

595

:

Why did I change?

596

:

Because, uh, I was raised a Baptist.

597

:

And after touring the world, uh,

I found out that there are 600

598

:

million Muslims on the planet.

599

:

And all religions are good.

600

:

I wrote something once.

601

:

It says, Rivers, lakes, and streams.

602

:

They all have different names,

but they all contain water.

603

:

So does religions have different

names, and they all contain God

604

:

and the truth, only expressed in

different ways, forms, and times.

605

:

What Jesus taught was good.

606

:

What Moses taught was right.

607

:

What Buddha taught was right.

608

:

What Christian taught was right.

609

:

What Isaiah, Lot, Noah God has always sent

prophets to different people at different

610

:

times, with messages for those people.

611

:

And people have decided to choose

those prophets as their leader.

612

:

Some follow Krishna.

613

:

Some follow Buddha.

614

:

Some follow Mohammed.

615

:

Some follow Jesus.

616

:

Some follow whoever.

617

:

But Moses, all of them are right.

618

:

Jesus made a statement, I

come not to destroy no law of

619

:

the prophet, but to fulfill.

620

:

All of God's prophets are right.

621

:

You gotta believe in all of them.

622

:

So, if the person follow Buddha,

and do what Buddha said, they'll

623

:

see God, and believe in Him.

624

:

If a person follow Krishna and live

what he preached, he'll be good.

625

:

If a person follow Moses and live like

Moses preached, if they follow Jesus,

626

:

they follow a lot, any of the prophets.

627

:

So, I decided to take the Islamic path.

628

:

The Christian path is a perfect

religion if the people practice.

629

:

And you have two coats, give me one.

630

:

I'm hungry, you feed me.

631

:

Love your enemy.

632

:

Pray for those who use you.

633

:

Forgive.

634

:

Give charity.

635

:

Don't hate.

636

:

Christianity is a perfect religion.

637

:

It's the people who

don't live the religion.

638

:

The religion is good, but the people

do things in the name of the religion.

639

:

A lot of Muslims do

things they shouldn't do.

640

:

A lot of Protestants, a lot

of Buddhists, a lot of Hindus

641

:

live like they shouldn't live.

642

:

But the religion itself, the

religion is right, but the people who

643

:

follow the religion ain't so right.

644

:

So I choose to follow the Islamic

path because I never saw so much love.

645

:

I never saw So many people

hugging each other, kissing each

646

:

other, praying five times a day.

647

:

The women in the long garments,

the way they would eat.

648

:

You can go to any country

and say, As salamu salam.

649

:

You got a home, you got a brother.

650

:

I chose the Islamic path

because it connected me.

651

:

As a Christian in America, I

couldn't go to the white churches.

652

:

Uh, as a Christian, uh,

that was for those people.

653

:

It did them good.

654

:

It didn't do me good.

655

:

Uh, I saw Jesus Christ.

656

:

I saw a white man with

blonde and blue eyes.

657

:

I look at the Lord suffering

Christianity, I see all white people.

658

:

You are Asiatic girl.

659

:

I see a man behind you is dark.

660

:

All the pictures of angels are white.

661

:

Why come we never go to heaven?

662

:

Why come the Mexican don't

go to heaven and fly around?

663

:

Why the Puerto Rican, all the

angels happen to be white angels.

664

:

I look at Peter was white.

665

:

Mary was white.

666

:

Paul was white.

667

:

God's son Jesus was white.

668

:

Uh, everything was white.

669

:

Tarzan, the king of the

jungles, he was white.

670

:

And the angel food cake was made white,

and the devil food cake was chocolate.

671

:

And if I threaten you,

I'm gonna blackmail you.

672

:

Black was always bad in the western world.

673

:

Uh, the black cat was the bad luck.

674

:

Uh, if you get put out of a

fraternity group, you get blackballed.

675

:

Uh, black was always bad.

676

:

So, the only thing that made me feel

good The only thing that made me feel

677

:

free that connected me with Saudi

Arabia, the Islamic religion, connected

678

:

me with Pakistan, Morocco, Syria.

679

:

I sat down with Colonel Qaddafi,

had dinner in his palace, stayed

680

:

overnight because I'm a Muslim.

681

:

As a Christian, I never could

sit with Christian leaders.

682

:

As a Muslim, I sat with Sadat, I

sat with President Nasser, um, uh,

683

:

Marcos of the Philippines, Ayub

Khan of Pakistan before he died.

684

:

I've been sitting with kings of,

uh, Sheikh Zayed of Abu Dhabi.

685

:

Kings and people of these

nations have welcomed me as

686

:

a brother, and I'm a citizen.

687

:

And now in America, I'm

respected by all colors and

688

:

throughout the world as a Muslim.

689

:

See, the name Muhammad is the

most common name in the world.

690

:

There are more and more

Hamids on the planet.

691

:

There are 4 billion people on Earth,

and every third person is a Muslim.

692

:

So, for me, I'm not condemning

no other religion, but for

693

:

me, they're a world figure.

694

:

John, taking the name Muhammad Ali,

which is the name of my people for

695

:

the birth of America, accepting the

Islamic religion, it was better for me.

696

:

Where another person, Shintuism,

Buddhism, uh, uh, uh, Christianity,

697

:

Baptist, Catholic, Protestant,

Jewish, that might fit another man.

698

:

But you can choose any religion you want.

699

:

If you believe it, you'll see

God, because all of them are good.

700

:

So I chose the Islamic religion.

701

:

That's why I chose it.

702

:

Mohammed, Mohammed,

703

:

uh,

704

:

Now, after the boxing, after the

boxing, I would like to be a minister.

705

:

Don't you think I preach pretty good?

706

:

Very good.

707

:

Don't I make it plain?

708

:

Yes.

709

:

Don't you understand now?

710

:

You ask me, you ask me some pretty,

you ask me some pretty tough questions,

711

:

but didn't I make a lot of sense?

712

:

I didn't, I didn't make

the Christians hate me.

713

:

I didn't make the Protestants hate me.

714

:

I didn't make the Catholics hate me.

715

:

I told you the truth.

716

:

I said, all of them are

good if they live it.

717

:

It's just the people don't live it.

718

:

So I chose this.

719

:

I'm prepared.

720

:

That's a, religion is a touchy thing.

721

:

Religion.

722

:

Very few people can see.

723

:

I, some people, you say, I'm a Muslim.

724

:

Don't want to hear you.

725

:

Some people, you say, I'm a Protestant.

726

:

Pow, pow.

727

:

You say, I'm a Catholic.

728

:

Pow, pow.

729

:

All of them are right.

730

:

All of them are from God.

731

:

All of them are good and teach good.

732

:

It's just the people and the

titles that make you prejudiced.

733

:

But all of them got the same.

734

:

It says, one God, but there

are many roads to that God.

735

:

You understand?

736

:

This is the power of this.

737

:

You see me do this, you

call me the greatest.

738

:

That's because I'm more religious

than I am physical, and I study a lot.

739

:

And you may be surprised if

you hear me talk, because you

740

:

never heard me talk this way.

741

:

But I know about, I got about

45 lectures that I memorized.

742

:

In my ministry, and I can tell you

something about all the religious

743

:

books, all the religions, because I'm

a strong believer in God and humanity.

744

:

That's why I'm helping these boys.

745

:

That's why God blesses

me to be so great here.

746

:

Because all the time I've been

here, I've been talking about God.

747

:

Pushing God.

748

:

Pushing religion.

749

:

I'm not talking about me, how

great I am, how much money I got.

750

:

I'm always giving the praise to God.

751

:

So that's why I'm as great as I am in this

physical world, because I push Him first.

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About the Podcast

The American Muslim Podcast
The voices, stories, and perspectives shaping the American Muslim Experience
The American Muslim Podcast is your gateway to exploring the diverse and dynamic stories shaping the American Muslim experience. Presented by Bayan On Demand, this podcast shines a spotlight on the voices of leaders who are making a profound impact in their communities—many of whom are students, alumni, and visiting faculty of Bayan Islamic Graduate School.

From imams and chaplains to Islamic school leaders, teachers, scholars, and non-profit pioneers, we celebrate those who dedicate themselves to serving others. These inspiring individuals include masjid leaders, community activists, and youth mentors who exemplify the values of faith, compassion, and resilience in their work.

Through insightful conversations and authentic narratives, we explore how these leaders navigate faith, identity, and service, offering a unique perspective on the evolving role of American Muslims in shaping society. Join us to uncover the stories of those who lead with purpose and embody the transformative mission of Bayan.

About your host

Profile picture for Tariq El-Amin

Tariq El-Amin

Imam Tariq I. El-Amin serves as the Resident Imam of Masjid Al-Taqwa in Chicago, IL. He is the founder of the Chicago Black Muslim History Tour and the former host of Sound Vision's Radio Islam, a nightly talk radio program that aired in the Chicago market. Tariq is a recipient of the Muhammad Ali Scholarship and earned a Master of Divinity in Islamic Chaplaincy from Bayan Islamic Graduate School in 2022. He is currently pursuing a Doctorate of Ministry in Islamic Community Leadership at Bayan, with expected completion in 2026. Tariq is also a producer of the award-winning UIC Black Excellence podcast, hosted by Dr. Aisha El-Amin, and lends his voice to narrating audiobooks.