Episode 5

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Published on:

12th Feb 2025

From Forensics to Faith: Ustadha Hazel Gomez on Community, Education, & Justice

In this episode of the American Muslim Podcast presented by Bayan On Demand, host Imam Tariq El-Amin engages in a heartfelt and enlightening conversation with Ustadha Hazel Gomez. A Puerto Rican and Mexican Muslim convert, Ustadha Hazel shares her transformative life story, from her experiences growing up in Chicago to embracing Islam and becoming an influential community servant and educator. She delves into how her upbringing in a safe and welcoming home shaped her values and vision. The discussion touches on her educational journey, her challenges, and how her identity as a convert informs her work. As they explore the importance of knowledge, community, and ethical conduct, Ustadha Hazel underscores the significance of Bayan Islamic Graduate School and the valuable courses offered through Bayan on Demand.

00:00 Introduction to Bayan on Demand

01:00 Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast

01:19 Meet Ustadha Hazel Gomez

02:49 Ustadha Hazel's Origin Story

06:57 The Convert Experience

09:22 Journey into Forensic Science

16:23 Embracing Islam in High School

23:04 Cultural Identity and Islam

26:23 The Importance of Female Scholars

33:06 The Importance of Appreciation

34:17 Teaching Halaqah: A Global Experience

34:46 Challenges of Islamic Literacy

35:59 Navigating the Online and Physical Worlds

36:47 Building Personal Connections

40:28 Emulating the Prophet's Empathy

46:02 The Role of Integrity and Future Generations

48:26 Connecting Humanity Through Stories

51:33 The Journey of Learning and Teaching

57:14 Pursuing Higher Education at Bayan

01:01:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Cover Art & Intro Music - Tariq I. El-Amin

Transcript
Imam Tariq:

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dot org, to get more information.

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Assalamu alaikum.

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May the peace that only

God can give be upon you.

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Welcome to the American Muslim

Podcast presented by Bayan On Demand.

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I'm your host, Imam Tariq Al Amin.

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Each week, I bring you conversations

with leaders across the nation,

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serving in a variety of ways.

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Today, we are honored to have

Usteda Hazel Gomez with us.

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Usteda Hazel is a Puerto Rican and

Mexican Muslim convert of over 20 years,

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originally from Chicago's West Side.

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She is a dedicated community servant.

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Islamic Studies student and educator.

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She's a graduate of Loyola

University Chicago with degrees

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in Forensic Science and Biology.

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Ustedda Hazel has studied Foundational

Islamic Sciences at Al Azhar

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University and continues her Islamic

education through Rabata's Ribat

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Academic Institute under Shaykh Dr.

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Taimur Regre.

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She teaches youth programs for

Rabata and advises on faith based

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community organizing initiatives,

including Dream of Detroit.

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Named one of 21 Faith Leaders to Watch by

nter for American Progress in:

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Ustadha Hazel lives in Detroit

with her husband and three sons.

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Again, it is a honor to have you join us.

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Assalamu alaikum, Ustada Hazel.

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Ustadha Hazel: Wa alaikum

assalam, Imam Tariq.

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Alhamdulillah.

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I'm so honored to be here

and share space with you.

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Alhamdulillah.

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Imam Tariq: Alhamdulillah.

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It is a blessing to have you here.

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I just want to set the table here.

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This platform isn't just about

highlighting the work, but it's also

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about humanizing those doing the work.

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Exploring their journeys

and what shaped them.

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So that said, we encourage you,

we invite you to share as much

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as you're comfortable with.

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Your story, your journey,

and what shaped you.

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With that, where did it all start for you?

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What's your origin story, Ustadha Hazel?

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Ustadha Hazel: SubhanAllah, Allahumma

salli ala Sayyidina Muhammad, qala rabbi

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ishra li sadri, wa yasir li amri, wa ahlul

akhdadan min lisani, yafqahu qawli ya rab.

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That's a very difficult question

because in, in my life, and I know

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in the life of so many leaders,

depending on the context that they

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are in, They will uplift a story that,

that is the catalyst that moved them.

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And I think for me, I've had many of

those moments growing up in my life

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where I've had those moments of, yeah,

this, maybe this is my origin story.

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Maybe this.

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I think for me the crux of it is that

I do not want anyone to experience the

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same pains that I endured as a child.

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And that means a lot of the systems

that are in so many of our lives

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that directly impact all of us.

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So for example, we talk

about the immigration system.

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I have been directly affected

by the immigration system with

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the deportation of my father.

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We talk about the criminal justice system.

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I have been directly impacted

by the criminal injustice system

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with the incarceration of my

own father, of my uncles, of my

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mother of so many of my relatives.

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We talk about police brutality.

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I have had cops just roll into my house

and because I'm the, I was the only

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English speaker When with my grandparents

I had to be, here's eight year old Hazel

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having to be the translator between

authorities and my Spanish speaking

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grandparents so You know, growing up

in a Puerto Rican household and , my

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paternal grandparents are Mexican, my

home was also like a safe haven for

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the undocumented, a safe haven for

brothers just coming home from prison.

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And when you ask what started

for me, I'll share this.

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There was, SubhanAllah, there was this one

day when I was really young and, I noticed

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one of the men from the community, he

had been locked up for a minute and

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one day he just comes knocking on the

door, my grandmother out here telling

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me, look out the window, see who it is.

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I see the window and I'm like, oh my

goodness, I haven't seen him in so long.

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I opened the door and.

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Immediately, he's I just got

out and I just had to come

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to Cuca and Shorty's house.

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I needed a home cooked Puerto Rican meal.

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And I noticed a pattern that so

many of the men from our community,

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whatever decisions they made, but

so many of the men of our community,

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our home was like the stop so they

can get their first home cooked meal.

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And our kitchen table

was just full of stories.

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And, my grandmother's telling me, get him

this or serve him this, what does he need?

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And me just asking questions

and my grandfather there.

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So my home was that safe Haven.

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And I'm so grateful for my

grandparents for being individuals

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that people felt safe with.

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And I knew from a young age,

I want to be that person.

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I want to be safe for people.

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I want people to know that they

can come to me for whatever and

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there's not going to be no judgment.

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And my grandparents really,

mashallah, exemplified that.

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And so I have many different origin

stories, but that one sticks out

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to me as the one that I realized.

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And I noticed a pattern that, Oh, okay.

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Our home is safe.

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Imam Tariq: That is

profoundly beautiful, Ustadha.

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And I say that because it just wonderfully

illustrates the importance of safe spaces.

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In building and supporting community

life, you can't get around that.

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We could talk for hours just on that.

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I want to ask you about the term convert.

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And for you as someone who has been

Muslim for over 20 years, how important

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is it that you identify yourself as such?

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Or is there a point in time where you

may feel that it is no longer necessary

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to introduce yourself as a convert?

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Or does the word carry a

particular resonance with you

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that Is not bound by time.

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Ustadha Hazel: The convert experience

is very unique, so I will always, I'm

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Muslim obviously, but I will caveat

that with saying I'm a convert because

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there is something about converting

that I can't pass on that, that I can't

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pass on that excitement to my kids.

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I can't pass on that moment where it's

I was raised with this as a Catholic

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and I was raised with these mentalities.

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And I'm, going on 23

years of being Muslim.

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I still got Catholic guilt Imam.

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Imam Tariq I still got Catholic guilt.!

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Okay.

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I said that with some sisters and

they literally, they're all Catholic.

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They literally were like, Can we start

a Catholic guilt group among Muslims

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, because my kids don't

have that Alhamdulillah

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There's that moment where we have

to make that like conscious shift.

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And I think everyone goes through

that, even if they're raised Muslim.

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. So I will always caveat that with

saying I'm a convert because it

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does allow for some context in.

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Okay.

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There's a different upbringing and

there is a different background.

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And that's why I also like the word,

like people who are raised Muslim

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and they leave the Deen and they come

back, they say recommitted, right?

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That they're re committing to this Dean.

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And I love that because

people do have moments.

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We all stray off the path, and

we always have to recommit.

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Yeah, I will caveat that with convert

and also just not to go down this

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path, but I do prefer the word

convert over revert, just because.

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Revert in English usually has a

negative connotation and it means

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to go back to something, right?

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Like you're going back to their old ways.

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So I do prefer the word

convert over revert.

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I don't know, everybody uses the

word that they use, but I personally

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do prefer the word convert.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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You have degrees or one of your

degrees is in forensic science.

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Ustadha Hazel: Yes.

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Forensic science.

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Imam Tariq: Talk to us a bit about.

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. Your entry point into that particular

field and if there are specific principles

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or tenets of your scientific education

that have influenced or impacted, had any

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kind of relevance to your study of Islam.

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Ustadha Hazel: So I got

into forensic science.

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As this way to stick it to the system.

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And as, and what I mean by

that is growing up with the

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different spaces that I was in.

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I knew Illinois prison system, like the

back of my hand, I knew what was maximum

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security, what was minimum security, what

was low security, what was the farm in

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Wisconsin, what was the farm in Nevada?

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I say that because.

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I was deeply affected as a child

with the criminal injustice system.

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And so it was really watching

people and being around so many

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different kinds of people that I

remember when I learned about how

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unique our fingerprints are, right.

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And just how we all have,

these different patterns on our

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fingerprints to identify who we are.

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I remember thinking.

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I want to get into forensic science

as a way to ensure that people are

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not unjustly being incarcerated,

that the little details that are at

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a crime scene or the little details

that are there, that they're really

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being taken care of by ethical people.

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Because one of the issues in forensics

is there have been forensic scientists

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and crime scene investigators who are

unethical and they tamper with evidence.

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So my thing was like, I want to be

ethical and I want to ensure that, people

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are not being unjustly incarcerated.

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Plus I also noticed a pattern of having

visited so many different prisons.

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Cause again, I had to visit family

members and I'm grateful for the

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opportunity for us to have done that.

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And carpooling and all that, because

it's not, it ain't easy, but I also

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noticed a pattern of why are there

so many African American men in jail?

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Why?

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And in prison, why are there

so many Latino men in jails and

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prisons and same for the women?

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And I was like this is weird.

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So here's.

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Eight year old Hazel when I'm just

really looking and noticing and I'm

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like, this is odd So when I went into

the field, it was really this way of

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paying attention to the details, but

also Knowing that Allah has given us

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our God given Traits and uniqueness.

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He is a Al-Musawwir.

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He is the fashioner.

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He is the one that fashions us

In very unique and careful ways.

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So my intention was, okay, I'm going to go

into this field and I want to be ethical.

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And I want to find what the patterns are

that my people are overly represented.

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My peoples and paying

attention to all the details.

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And so when you're asking about how this

transfers into the Islamic framework.

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Really seeing the Islamic ethics and

how we should be upright and honest,

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and we stand up for justice even

if it's against our own selves.

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These concepts are so deeply rooted

in our faith that it would make sense

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for someone who is in the criminal

justice system to also have those

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ethics, but that ain't always the case.

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And so it was very disheartening.

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But there was also one moment,

I will never forget this.

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That's another origin moment.

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But that was a moment that I was like,

Oh, wow, it's a systemic problem.

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This is a big issue.

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I was in a upper level forensic molecular

biology class, and we're extracting

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DNA from different bodily fluids.

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And I remember the professor was

describing what CODIS was, and

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this is where all the DNA is.

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And there's only three

racial categories for CODIS.

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Imam Tariq: Really?

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Ustadha Hazel: It says, yep, it

says white, Caucasian, Hispanic,

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Latino, African American, black.

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And I'm sitting there with

all my identities, right?

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My great grandmother being black, my

grandmother's half black, the native

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on both sides of the family, the

European recent immigrants in the early

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20th century to Puerto Rico, right?

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So I'm, and I'm over

here so I raised my hand.

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I'm the only woman of color,

the only Muslim in the class.

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Everyone else is white.

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And I was like, why are there

only three racial categories?

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If it, this is, for DNA, that this

makes zero sense because what would

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someone like me be categorized as?

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And I was like, and then what

about somebody who's Asian?

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So her legit answer was white people

are the standard and the people

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who commit most of the crimes in

this country are black and Latino.

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Imam Tariq: Wow.

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Wow.

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No, she did.

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Wow.

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Ustadha Hazel: If I could have

taken off my hijab pin and dropped

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it, that's how quiet it was.

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And I was like, I reported

her, nothing happened.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Ustadha Hazel: And that was a

moment that I was like, all right,

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this is what I'm going to do.

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This is what I'm going to get into.

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And I was, I was already

Muslim at that point.

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Cause I converted in high school.

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So I'm just like, Oh this.

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She really believes that she's

really out here teaching this to

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university students, subhanAllah.

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So that was another moment for me where

it was just like, there are systems

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in place that are super intentional,

that even with our God given traits

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and uniqueness, it will be used

against us in some way, shape, or form.

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Because who is setting up the system?

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Imam Tariq: That's right.

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Ustadha Hazel: And so the hadith of the prophet, the prophetic saying where, you

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know, he says, whoever among you sees an

evil, let them change it with their hand.

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And if they cannot change it, if

they cannot change it with their hand

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and with their tongue, and if they

cannot change it with their tongue,

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then at least with their heart.

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And that is the weakest of faith.

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Meaning, at you gotta do something,

gotta do something, gotta do something.

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Imam Tariq: Yeah.

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Ustadha Hazel: And it was it really led

to a lot of my organizing even on campus.

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Being in the sciences was, it'll

consume you, but it was really

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a transformative moment for me.

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And so that ethic, that ethical

piece, and it started forcing me to

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look into like more of the systems.

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I was aware of the systems and

I was learning it on my own

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as

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I was digging deep into the details

of forensics, but SubhanAllah, it

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just that moment really angered me.

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And even now, just thinking about

it, just like, how dare you?

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Imam Tariq: So you

converted in high school.

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Talk a bit more about that.

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Were you seeking something at that

particular point that Islam spoke

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to, or was it, you walked into it?

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Ustadha Hazel: For me, I and if it's

okay, I would love to read this poem

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that changed my life as a 13 year old.

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So as a 13 year old I was.

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It was an eighth grade, just

just graduating eighth grade,

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going into high school.

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And for me, I was going through

a faith crisis and I was like, I

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had just finished my confirmation.

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That's what it was.

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I was 13, just finished my confirmation

within the Catholic church.

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And the confirmation is you're

confirming to be a part of this faith.

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But something was a little off for me and

I didn't, as faith leaders, it's important

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to answer the questions that people ask.

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and understand that people come

from different perspectives.

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So some people want the

feel good spiritual stuff.

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Some people want the logical and rational.

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At that age, I really needed

the logical and the rational.

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And for whatever reason, and maybe

because I was 13, I was always pushed

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to the side and just Told mates,

make, just believe you'll be fine.

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Just believe.

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And I didn't like that from the priest

that I had been discussing faith with.

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And so I was reading as a child who loves

to read Puerto Rican poetry and Puerto

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Rican authors and anything Latino and

black, just like trying to find myself.

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There's this poem by Aurora

Levins Morales called child of the

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Americas that just changed my life.

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And I'll explain after I read it.

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I am a child of the Americas, a light

skinned mestiza of the Caribbean,

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a child of many diaspora born into

this continent at a crossroads.

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I am a U S Puerto Rican Jew, a

product of the ghettos of a New York.

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I have never known an immigrant and the

daughter and granddaughter of immigrants.

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I speak English with passion.

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It's the tongue of my consciousness,

a flashing knife blade of crystal.

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My tool, my craft.

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I am Caribeña, island grown, Spanish

is in my flesh, ripples from my tongue,

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lodge in my hips, the language of

garlic and mangoes, the singing of

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poetry, the flying gestures of my hands.

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I am of Latinoamerica, rooted

in the history of my continent,

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I speak from that body.

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I am not African, Africa is

in me, but I cannot return.

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I am not Taina, Taino is in

me, but there is no way back.

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I am not European.

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Europe lives in me, but

I have no home there.

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I am new.

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History made me.

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My first language was Spanglish.

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I was born at the crossroads.

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And I am whole.

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Imam Tariq: That's beautiful.

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That, that, that is beautiful.

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Why do I feel like I've heard this before?

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I'm not It seems like something

I might have heard on on WBEZ.

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They

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Imam Tariq: No, seriously,

they do artists showcase Yeah,

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that was absolutely beautiful.

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So what does that mean to you?

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Ustadha Hazel: Yeah.

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So as someone who growing up and

like I mentioned, and always being

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around so many family members and so

many different family members being

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Puerto Rican and Mexican, the various

histories, my great grandmother I was,

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I slept over her house every weekend.

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So I heard stories of her father's

enslavement in Puerto Rico, right?

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Like I just have all these familial

stories and I always wondered who am I?

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What made me would I, if, literally,

I'd be like, if colonialism didn't

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happen, would I be in West Africa?

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If colonialism didn't happen,

would I be in Puerto Rico, in the

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rainforest, where, you know, near the

rainforest where my family is from?

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Would I be on the borderlands,

because the border crossed us, right?

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Would I be in Southern Spain?

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With family that I'm sure is still

there because migration happened

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in the early in the 1930s from

Southern Spain, very recent.

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So I was just thinking, but what also

struck me was when she said, I am a U.

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S.

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Puerto Rican Jew.

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And I was like, Hold up, what?

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We can be Latino and something else?

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Because our culture and religion

is can be so entrenched.

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That I was like, there is a

different way to view the world.

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And so really, Starting at the

age of 16 in high school, that's

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when I made the decision I wanted

to be Muslim when I was 16.

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And I went to a school

way up on the north side.

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I went to Northside College Prep

High School, going from Humboldt

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Park all the way up there.

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That was a trek.

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But being exposed to

different Communities.

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Really, I became friends with the Muslim

girls because they didn't drink, they

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didn't date, they didn't sneak out

the house, they didn't do a lot of the

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things that teenagers, some do, but

also I was raised by my grandparents.

360

:

And they gave me a talking to

of we expect better from you.

361

:

Don't disappoint us.

362

:

You're going to a good high school.

363

:

And Just be right.

364

:

And, as my as we have in the prophetic,

in our tradition, in Islam as a saying

365

:

we also have an in Latino culture, in

Spanish idiom is tell me who your friends

366

:

are and I'll tell you who you are.

367

:

Imam Tariq: That's right.

368

:

Ustadha Hazel: Dime con quien anda y

te diré quien eres, so I honestly just

369

:

became friends with them cause I was like,

Oh, they got the same values, period.

370

:

We're done.

371

:

We're good.

372

:

We're going to be friends.

373

:

Imam Tariq: The law of association.

374

:

Ustadha Hazel: Absolutely.

375

:

Absolutely.

376

:

Imam Tariq: So much of what

you said landed with me, and it

377

:

brings to mind the idea of double

consciousness, a term coined by W.

378

:

E.

379

:

B Du Bois, a scholar that many of our

listeners I'm sure are familiar with.

380

:

If you're not familiar with him this comes

from the book, The Souls of Black Folk.

381

:

The idea is that we live with a tension.

382

:

We live in two different

realities and often opposing.

383

:

And unfortunately, while it is not

the case in every instance, it does

384

:

occur far too often that people who

enter into Islam, there's either

385

:

an explicit or implicit expectation

that they shed off who they were

386

:

before they entered into Islam.

387

:

Instead of it being a refinement,

it becomes an erasure.

388

:

An erasure of cultural identity,

ethnic identity, and so on.

389

:

How important has that been for you to

make that connection and reconcile those

390

:

identities in your practice of Islam?

391

:

Ustadha Hazel: It's transformative to

acknowledge it and know that I don't

392

:

have to camouflage as anyone else.

393

:

It was very difficult in the beginning

as I started to meet more Latina Muslims

394

:

and Latino Muslims and just hearing

their stories and meeting more African

395

:

American Muslims as well, who hearing

and hearing their stories and how they

396

:

acclimated with these cultural things.

397

:

I started to pay attention to

how people have culture, right?

398

:

And there's so many things

that make up culture.

399

:

One of the things that I do my best

to do during an example would be like

400

:

during the month of Ramadan is having.

401

:

What would be considered traditional

Mexican Puerto Rican foods that happen

402

:

over like the Christmas holiday season?

403

:

And we're not gonna have them

over December, but we don't have

404

:

them during Ramadan So so it would

be like that So that association

405

:

with Oh, I smell my boys, right?

406

:

Oh, I smell tamales.

407

:

We're having it a lot.

408

:

Like it's Ramadan, like these are

foods that traditionally are cooked

409

:

over the Christmas holiday season.

410

:

Imam Tariq: Right

411

:

Ustadha Hazel: so I noticed

that it's not just me.

412

:

There's a lot of other Latinas and

Latinos as well, who are using their

413

:

traditional holiday food and making it

their Ramadan holiday food and their Eid

414

:

food so that it's it's already there.

415

:

But now it's, you're just changing

it when you're serving it.

416

:

So that's like an example of food

when it comes to ways of dress, right?

417

:

I do sometimes wear a lot of Guapiles,

like a lot of the traditional Mexican

418

:

dresses, I just make it, halalify

it, just make sure that it's good and

419

:

presentable, but it's just showing up as.

420

:

And I know, everybody has their

expression of culture differently.

421

:

Sometimes, for myself, like I have a

few tote bags that are just strictly in

422

:

Spanish and that's sparked conversation.

423

:

And I appreciate that.

424

:

Cause people are like, Oh, but you look,

you look out of it or you look, like

425

:

some people would think I'm Asian, like

they'll say Chinese or they'll say, Yeah.

426

:

Or they'll say Arab and, people who know

would be like, you look like this country.

427

:

I've only gotten mistaken

as Puerto Rican once.

428

:

And I was like, yes.

429

:

Meaning the person was

like, you look Puerto Rican.

430

:

I was like thank you.

431

:

so much.

432

:

But I know for me, like

even keeping my name, right?

433

:

Like I kept my name when I got married.

434

:

I kept my name when I

converted Hazel Gomez.

435

:

That's what you're going to get.

436

:

But even when I got married,

I didn't change my name.

437

:

And for me, it's my intention

was, I want this to be thou.

438

:

I want this to people to know that

there is a Gomez that's Muslim.

439

:

And even Hazel has,

doesn't have a bad meaning.

440

:

And, it's a really old

school American name, but.

441

:

It's okay, what's my Muslim name?

442

:

My Muslim name is Hazel

cause Hazel Gomez is Muslim.

443

:

So my Muslim name is Hazel.

444

:

Imam Tariq: Yes.

445

:

I've always loved that retort when

someone says, what's your Muslim name?

446

:

And it's my name is Eric Jones.

447

:

Ustadha Hazel: Yeah.

448

:

Imam Tariq: Eric Jones

is now a Muslim name.

449

:

Ustadha Hazel: Exactly.

450

:

Imam Tariq: So yeah, that goes definitely

into, pushing back against these.

451

:

This expectation of conformity and,

but as Ustada Hazel, can you talk

452

:

about the importance of your journey

and your teachers are Shaykhas, right?

453

:

These are women learned women, and how

important that has been for you and

454

:

how you have acquired knowledge and

also how that influences the way that.

455

:

You impart knowledge.

456

:

Ustadha Hazel: SubhanAllah.

457

:

When it comes, when I converted,

I immediately was embraced by my

458

:

friends and they were teaching me like

different things and I'm so grateful

459

:

for them on those Wednesday afternoons

in the local university library

460

:

just teaching me the hazel class.

461

:

I was learning fiqh and I

was learning hadith and I was

462

:

learning the Arabic alphabet and

learning how to pray, obviously.

463

:

SubhanAllah.

464

:

So learning was something that

I've always been a learner.

465

:

Talking about colonialism at 13, right?

466

:

I've always been a reader, right?

467

:

So just like learning is

it's so important to me.

468

:

There was a moment where I

learned something from someone

469

:

and it didn't sit right with me.

470

:

And I was like,

471

:

This doesn't sound right.

472

:

So I pushed back and Hamdallah

she Mashallah for her humility.

473

:

She's Oh, I went to my shaykh

and he actually told me what I

474

:

told you was a cultural thing.

475

:

And I'm so sorry.

476

:

And it was that moment that I

was like I gotta study this deen.

477

:

I gotta learn this deen for myself

and understand where it's coming from.

478

:

So I kept, Seeking knowledge

in a very piecemeal fashion.

479

:

And what I mean by that was like,

I masjid hopped and I went to

480

:

different mosques in the Chicagoland

area and outside of Chicago.

481

:

And I just kept seeking and learning

and taking, so many different

482

:

classes, but there was a moment where

I was like, I need a curriculum.

483

:

I need something steady.

484

:

And.

485

:

And it was after I came back from

Al-Azhar I was there for a few months

486

:

in the summer time at a, with a

delegation of Latino Muslims from the

487

:

United States, as well as Latin American

Muslims from across Latin America.

488

:

While I was there being in a

curriculum having a curriculum,

489

:

I was like, this is amazing.

490

:

So I kept making so much

du'a, I was pregnant, right?

491

:

So I couldn't stay for a full program.

492

:

My husband was just like, what

am I going to do in Egypt?

493

:

Masha'Allah.

494

:

It was very difficult.

495

:

I'm like, okay, I can't

take the scholarship.

496

:

Alhamdulillah, like it's all good.

497

:

So I came back and I was just really

praying for something structured.

498

:

And subhanAllah, that is that fall of

20 No, I think it was like the summer

499

:

of right when I came back to 2012 ish.

500

:

That's when Sheikha Tamra came to

the United States, SubhanAllah.

501

:

And I just remember getting a call

from my Qur'an teacher, and she

502

:

said, there's a Sheikha coming

from Syria, you need to meet her.

503

:

Yalla, come to my house.

504

:

And it was just openings, just Allah.

505

:

He is Al Fatah.

506

:

He is the one who opens like God just

gave me all these openings and just to

507

:

sit at the feet from up until that point,

I had mainly only studied with men and

508

:

then in Chicago, like a few women scholars

who taught out of their homes, but like

509

:

this Sheikha who had, students in Syria,

students all over the world and Was like,

510

:

just really teaching in a very unique way.

511

:

Also, her being a convert, I was like,

where have you, I remember telling her

512

:

like, where have you been all my life?

513

:

SubhanAllah.

514

:

And I'm grateful for all of

my teachers, Sidi Osama Kanon,

515

:

May Allah raise his ranks.

516

:

Just all the people who had,

who poured into me, right?

517

:

Who poured their ilm and their nur their

knowledge and their light into this.

518

:

Seeker, the struggling servant of God, I'm

grateful for all of them, but when Sheikha

519

:

Tamra came into my life, it was really

like, okay, I want to study with her

520

:

and I want to study with all these other

women, but because what makes it so unique

521

:

is there is this understanding, right?

522

:

I I've been in many situations where

I'm asking advice or something.

523

:

And, sometimes the Sheikha or any of the

Sheikhas, the Anisat, they'll say, I've

524

:

been there, SubhanAllah, I've been there.

525

:

And it could be something

about the kids, or it could be

526

:

something about something, right?

527

:

Just like to hear that I've been there,

528

:

Imam Tariq: uh huh

529

:

Ustadha Hazel: that empathetic ear, it.

530

:

It just brings this tranquility over the

heart where it's what I'm going through,

531

:

like genuinely know what I'm going

through as a woman and, SubhanAllah,

532

:

it's been a beautiful journey.

533

:

I've been with the Rabat Academic

Institute with Rabata, Rabat

534

:

Academic Institute is part of Rabata.

535

:

I've been there for well over 10 years.

536

:

I serve on the board of Rabata.

537

:

I'm the board chairwoman and

I'm entering my second year.

538

:

I really.

539

:

See the growth of so many of my friends

and colleagues, as well as women

540

:

who had just started their journey

with Rabota and learning with these

541

:

amazing sheikhas who have all these

ijazat, who have all this ilm, who,

542

:

are hafitha, who just But are, also

upright and they, like I said, they're

543

:

pouring their knowledge and their light

into us and they're also doing things

544

:

with this upbringing, this tarbiyah.

545

:

There is this upbringing and that,

and to have that upbringing requires a

546

:

really personal relationship subhanAllah

and it's been a beautiful journey and

547

:

I'm so grateful for for being with

so many different women scholars and

548

:

also benefiting from our you know male

scholars as well obviously it's just

549

:

a different It's a different vibe.

550

:

I don't know what else to say,

551

:

SubhanAllah.

552

:

Ustadha Hazel: I will say this, right?

553

:

It is difficult when, upon converting

to Islam and seeing how often times

554

:

women were often mistreated, right?

555

:

Like, how often, there is No care for

the women's spaces that everything

556

:

looks beautiful and there's a new

chandelier and you know The women got

557

:

something janky in the back, right?

558

:

But so that was something I

really struggled with as well.

559

:

I was like, no, this is not what Islam

teaches It's not what God teaches.

560

:

It's not what the prophesied

son teaches, right?

561

:

So it was really not allowing these

This misunderstandings and this way of

562

:

how we should be in community together.

563

:

I tried my best not to allow these, this

stuff to like really affect my heart.

564

:

And so it's okay.

565

:

Just where I'll go, where

I'm going to be appreciated.

566

:

I'm going to go not where I'm not going

to go in a place where I'm tolerated.

567

:

I'm going to go where I'm appreciated.

568

:

I

569

:

Imam Tariq: love that the idea of not

going where you are tolerated, but where

570

:

you are appreciated that's something

that I personally, I try to adhere to.

571

:

And it also brings to mind how we

are able to express appreciation

572

:

in a number of different ways.

573

:

I remember when we were designing the

bathrooms at the masjid, we wanted to

574

:

make sure that we sent a very clear

message that we value, we appreciate,

575

:

and we see our other half, our sisters.

576

:

So if you go into the sisters, Wudu

area, you will see that they've got a

577

:

better spread than the brothers, right?

578

:

It's much more comfortable

and but that is intentional.

579

:

It's not that we don't love our brothers,

but we want it to be really clear about

580

:

sending a message of appreciation.

581

:

When you think about the things that

you see that you notice at this stage

582

:

of your journey, are there things that

are more apparent to you as a teacher?

583

:

Now, as an Ustadha, That maybe

weren't as visible or on your radar

584

:

at the outset of your journey.

585

:

Ustadha Hazel: So I do

teach Halaqah with Rabata.

586

:

This is my third year teaching a Halakha.

587

:

So I have students from all over the

world, it's incredible all over the U

588

:

S and Canada and Malaysia, Singapore

have some students in Germany.

589

:

And Nigeria, just all over, really.

590

:

And one thing that I love is that

we are learning together, and

591

:

we're sharing our own struggles.

592

:

And even though I mention all

these different societies, the,

593

:

there still is one not having a

foundational literacy of Islam.

594

:

Is it still an issue?

595

:

It was an issue in the past.

596

:

It's still an issue now.

597

:

And I'm wondering if it's an issue

because there is information overload

598

:

that people don't know where to go.

599

:

So I love our Holocaust

are completely free.

600

:

But it is like January to

December, you, Inshallah.

601

:

So I'll be more than happy to share

the resources about that, but.

602

:

It's it's I really feel like

with over information overload

603

:

women and and even men, right?

604

:

They don't know who is authentic or who's

not right or who is You know Speaking

605

:

off the cuff or speaking from their nafs

their egos and not following the quran

606

:

and the sunnah of the prophet sallallahu

alayhi wa sallam So when I hear their

607

:

issues i'm like, yeah because when I

was younger in the early:

608

:

I converted It was harder to come by

knowledge or harder to come by things.

609

:

But there was also like people knew

somebody who knew somebody, right?

610

:

Like it was authentic.

611

:

So there's that.

612

:

I think it's information overload is

one who I think one of the beauties

613

:

of our communities is that we really

need to utilize the physical space,

614

:

but also the online space as well.

615

:

Like the online world is a part

of one of the worlds of God.

616

:

Like it's a world, it's

a whole other world.

617

:

So how are we navigating that world?

618

:

Are we being good neighbors to each

other and that world and utilizing that

619

:

space where there is, social media aside.

620

:

There is this deep connectedness

that is happening across the world.

621

:

Like I'm sharing their

students from all over, right?

622

:

But is there still that one to one

conversations that are still happening?

623

:

Is there, in person gatherings

to help facilitate, that

624

:

distance that people have?

625

:

So for example, with my students,

I do schedule, I have close to 30

626

:

students this year, actually, not 40.

627

:

Last year I had close to

40, something like that.

628

:

But I do my best to meet with

each student one on one, at least

629

:

one time throughout the year.

630

:

So I'm like, alright, let's get our

coffee, our tea, let's drink some water.

631

:

We're gonna have a Zoom

call 45 minutes to an hour.

632

:

We're gonna get to know each

other, because if you're in my

633

:

class, I wanna know who you are.

634

:

I wanna, and you wanna

know who I am, right?

635

:

For me, it's just, and that,

I love doing that because it's

636

:

the community organizer in me.

637

:

Just like with the work that I do

it's very much what's your story?

638

:

I want to know who you are,

what brought you to here?

639

:

What, like, why, like, where's,

how's your Islam doing?

640

:

How is your Iman, right?

641

:

As the companions would

ask each other, right?

642

:

What is your Iman like?

643

:

How is your Iman doing?

644

:

So I'm doing my best to utilize this

virtual world, this online world, that

645

:

is a part of God's world and using it

in a way to still connect the hearts.

646

:

So I feel like those two things, it's

like basic Islamic literacy, and because

647

:

of information overload, people don't

have those basic Islamic literacies.

648

:

And then two, even though we're so

connected, there's still a disconnect.

649

:

So even though we have.

650

:

The online space, we really need

to get back to inviting people

651

:

over to our houses, just period.

652

:

We are not I grew up with going

to my friends houses all the time,

653

:

someone would come to my house.

654

:

I grew up with the, like

I'm telling you, right?

655

:

My household being that safe

haven, people just coming

656

:

over, we don't do that anymore.

657

:

And I'm the, and I'm the first

culprit of not doing that as often.

658

:

So it's like how we cannot be

that busy that we can't connect

659

:

with each other in person.

660

:

And it's just sharing a meal

just talking just, being with one

661

:

another and really Understanding

and learning about each other.

662

:

That is something that has come

up often in convert spaces, where

663

:

people ask, how can I help converts?

664

:

I'm like, okay, not only converts,

but like the broader Muslim community.

665

:

We need to invite people, we need

to invite each other to our houses.

666

:

So yeah, so it's that.

667

:

I don't know, like my, my, my head,

I'm just feeling like that warmth that

668

:

like, Oh, I have people over like that

feeling that like hospitality and being

669

:

a hostess and, just doing that for each

other and know that it makes all the

670

:

Imam Tariq: difference.

671

:

Yes.

672

:

Ustadha Hazel: So that's been, my

observation in the last just now that I'm

673

:

Teaching just what are the issues that

are young people are going through the

674

:

women, even men, subhanAllah brothers who

approach my husband with their own like

675

:

convert issues or just issues in general.

676

:

Like we're just, we come together.

677

:

If there's a project, what do you

want to work on for the market?

678

:

What do you want to work on?

679

:

Like we'll come together for

projects, but what about Just being

680

:

so that's we got to just be sometimes.

681

:

Imam Tariq: Do you think, and it's not

so much a critique and it may be an

682

:

anecdotal observation, but do you think

that type of relationship and that

683

:

type of vulnerability, because that's

what it is, opening yourself up to

684

:

your students, as well as, vice versa.

685

:

Do you think that is something

that's Missing broadly.

686

:

Do you see that being exemplified

on a regular basis because

687

:

I, 'cause personally, I often

feel like there's a disconnect

688

:

Ustadha Hazel: Yeah.

689

:

Imam Tariq: In that regard,

there's a hierarchical

690

:

Ustadha Hazel: Yes.

691

:

Type

692

:

Imam Tariq: of

693

:

Ustadha Hazel: absolutely.

694

:

Imam Tariq: Relationship that gets in the

way of the connecting, of our humanity.

695

:

Ustadha Hazel: Yeah, absolutely.

696

:

Yes.

697

:

I think that doing our best to

be our authentic selves, right?

698

:

While we are on the struggle bus,

where we're all striving and just

699

:

even though I'm in that particular

space, even though I'm the teacher I'm

700

:

still going, I have my own teachers

who are also your teachers, right?

701

:

There's a chain that goes back to the

prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam, right?

702

:

And so when I do this, It reminds me

of the story of the Prophet sallam that

703

:

his humanity and who he was and Trying

to emulate him, he's the busiest man

704

:

ain't nobody on this planet earth Till

today as busy as the Prophet sallallahu

705

:

was he didn't even have a cell phone.

706

:

Okay, he wasn't on

707

:

whatsapp

708

:

Here he is and this is where the

importance of paying attention to people

709

:

He's walking and he sees the little

boy crying and he goes up to the boy's

710

:

mother and says what's wrong with him?

711

:

Like why is he crying?

712

:

And the mother says, oh, he lost his bird.

713

:

His bird passed away.

714

:

Now Here's an adult asking another adult.

715

:

Why is your son crying?

716

:

He could have just I probably would have

been like Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that

717

:

and then walk away cuz I got stuff to do

But the Prophet sallam, what did he do?

718

:

He paused, he went up to the little

boy and he asked him, what's wrong?

719

:

The boy said, I lost my bird.

720

:

And even the way that he addressed

him, he said like the father of the

721

:

little bird is what he called him.

722

:

And he's sitting there like sitting on the

ground with this little boy asking him,

723

:

I'm really sorry that you lost your bird.

724

:

And he's sitting there and

they're talking, and one of the

725

:

narrations say that they prayed

a janazah for the little bird.

726

:

They prayed a funeral

prayer for the little bird.

727

:

This is our Prophet

728

:

where he took time out of his day.

729

:

And he sat with the little boy who

lost his bird, who was grieving, and

730

:

he talked to him until that grief

left, and the little boy smiled.

731

:

And as I said, there's a narration

that said that they prayed a janazah.

732

:

Can you imagine this little

boy just standing next to the

733

:

Prophet and they're, Allahu Akbar.

734

:

Imam Tariq: SubhanAllah.

735

:

Ustadha Hazel: and just

praying for the little bird.

736

:

So when we pay attention to people,

737

:

it's, we have this example, the

prophecy of the sun paid attention

738

:

to people, he paid attention to them.

739

:

He shows us his empathy.

740

:

He shows us what it means to be human.

741

:

He shows us that there is nothing busier.

742

:

That can keep us too busy than our

hearts connecting and he connected

743

:

with that boy Can you imagine what

with how transformative that life?

744

:

What is the life was for the

little boy in that moment?

745

:

And so for me, it's like I you know

as we all are Striving on la ilaha

746

:

illallah muhammad rasool Allah.

747

:

We're all trying to be and walk

in the footsteps of the Prophet

748

:

Muhammad Sallallahu alayhi wasallam

749

:

Imam Tariq: Sallallahu alayhi wasallam

750

:

Ustadha Hazel: and so When I meet

with my students, and yeah, and that's

751

:

me, like not everybody does that.

752

:

I do it one because It's, I

want to follow his example.

753

:

I want to know, he knew his friends.

754

:

He knew his companions.

755

:

He knew the people.

756

:

I want to know the people and I

want to, as an, also as a community

757

:

organizer, when you get to know the

people, you see what the patterns are.

758

:

And when you see those patterns, you

see what the big system issue is.

759

:

And you just, as an organizer, you help

people realize what that system was.

760

:

So I share that story because.

761

:

It's a reminder of at the end of the day,

we are human beings and we have hearts

762

:

and we grieve and we love and we pay

attention and we cannot allow all the

763

:

systems that are around us break down

the humanity that Allah Subh'anaHu has

764

:

given us and we hold on to our humanity

by following the example of the Prophet

765

:

Imam Tariq: I need to sit

with that for just a moment.

766

:

Ustadha Hazel: Yes sir.

767

:

Imam Tariq: What you have just shared

extremely powerful, Ustadha, it reminds

768

:

us of the importance of connection.

769

:

And that connection is based upon our

recognition of our common humanity.

770

:

And that always brings me back to

the verse of Qur'an where Allah

771

:

tells us that we have been raised

up for the benefit of humanity.

772

:

And it puts, for me, it puts our,

whatever that we're doing within

773

:

the context of remembering that.

774

:

But we're not separated from that.

775

:

When you think about your journey,

when you think about the different

776

:

ways that you engage in the public

and of course in the private spaces as

777

:

well, as a community organizer, as a

teacher as a family member and so on,

778

:

how would you define your contribution?

779

:

To the betterment of humanity,

780

:

Ustadha Hazel: that's a heavy question

781

:

Listen I just turned 40.

782

:

I should have an answer right?

783

:

I'm a big girl now.

784

:

I'm an adult

785

:

My intention as I look over as

I'm in the office looking over

786

:

this really busy street here in

Detroit, my intention is that

787

:

I want us to,

788

:

the first thing that comes to mind

always with any work that I do is

789

:

that, does it align with my values?

790

:

Imam Tariq: That's right.

791

:

Ustadha Hazel: And integrity.

792

:

I have two very major values.

793

:

One is integrity.

794

:

And the second one is future

generations, meaning that the benefit

795

:

of future generations, inshallah.

796

:

And not always seeing the benefit now.

797

:

And there's a hadith of the

prophet salallahu wasalam.

798

:

Where it gives me hope and because we

are a people of hope, we are of hope

799

:

where, the prophet said, even if it

is the day of judgment and you have

800

:

a seed in your hand, you plant it.

801

:

And I remember teaching it to my boys.

802

:

And the first time they're like,

you don't throw that seed away.

803

:

I was like no young men, you do not

throw that seed away, you plant it.

804

:

And we had a conversation about that.

805

:

And I was like, because

you still have something.

806

:

You don't know what's going to happen.

807

:

You still plant it.

808

:

And that's what we do that.

809

:

Even if we don't see the benefits

now, we pray for there to be

810

:

benefits in the future, because

that's what our ancestors did.

811

:

They continue to do and integrity, right?

812

:

To be ethical and to live with honesty

and to live with wholesomeness.

813

:

And for me, when I do this

work, it's connecting people.

814

:

I want the systems that we live in the

United live in within the United States.

815

:

Are meant to silo us and think

that I have this issue, I have

816

:

this issue, and we're siloed.

817

:

.

Like even the way the media pins immigration as a Latino issue, it's false.

818

:

Imam Tariq: That's right.

819

:

Ustadha Hazel: It is

not just a Latino issue.

820

:

This is something that affects

every single one of us.

821

:

Birthright citizenship is there,

like African Americans didn't

822

:

have, were not citizens, right?

823

:

That's why it was there.

824

:

Indigenous peoples got

their citizenship in:

825

:

Like what?

826

:

So it's, this isn't one community against

another, but we're pitted that way.

827

:

I want to be a connector.

828

:

I want people to know each other's

stories and see each other's humanity

829

:

because when you know people's

stories, one another's humanity.

830

:

And Allah says in the Quran, right?

831

:

In Surah Al Hujurat, Surah 49, verse

13, the one that we all quote, God

832

:

made us into nations and tribes so

that we get to know one another.

833

:

So are we really getting

to know one another?

834

:

And how does he end the verse?

835

:

He ends the verse with those, the

best of those are the ones who

836

:

have the God consciousness, right?

837

:

So it has nothing to, you're not superior

over another person based off of what

838

:

race or ethnic background you come from.

839

:

It's the ones who have

more God consciousness.

840

:

So are we really getting

to know one another?

841

:

Are we breaking down those biases?

842

:

Are we, checking ourselves and

holding ourselves accountable

843

:

when we're acting out of pocket?

844

:

So it's, so connector two is.

845

:

I just, I pray for the world to just

be a little better in wherever God

846

:

places me in my little corner of the

847

:

Imam Tariq: world

848

:

um hmm,

849

:

Ustadha Hazel: Just a little better, just

a little better for whoever comes next.

850

:

And also as an educator of the Islamic

sciences and also navigating and mentoring

851

:

community organizers who are Muslim is

always remember that God comes first.

852

:

Imam Tariq: Yeah.

853

:

Ustadha Hazel: Always remember

to have God as the focal point.

854

:

Because, as he said in Surah

Al Ma'idah, he could have made

855

:

us into one complete nation.

856

:

He could have made us one complete

people, but he didn't because it's a test.

857

:

Okay, so we know it's a test.

858

:

And now what?

859

:

How are we going to pass that test?

860

:

Are we really connecting with each other?

861

:

Are we really knowing about each other?

862

:

Are we really knowing

our histories, right?

863

:

Those who know themselves know their Lord.

864

:

Are we really getting to know who we are

and our own histories and of one another?

865

:

I want to be a connector.

866

:

That is a goal.

867

:

I want people to, I want to teach and

have that basic literacy of Islam.

868

:

The fact that in Islam 101 classes,

people are still asking the same

869

:

questions is like the broader community

outside the Muslim community, like

870

:

the broader non Muslim community still

got the same questions about Islam.

871

:

So how are we even teaching?

872

:

How are we, embodying this faith?

873

:

And also understand that

the personal is political.

874

:

Just, being Muslim is hard.

875

:

It's a it's very political to be Muslim.

876

:

And there's a whole lot of layers to that.

877

:

But, it's also understanding that

we are striving to do our best

878

:

to be among the servants of God.

879

:

And we will continue to do that.

880

:

And I just, I pray that if the Prophet

were here, and if he sees all the work

881

:

that so many different Muslims are

doing, that he just, I pray that he sees

882

:

our eventually we'll see and be like,

Oh, my Ummah was here, like my Ummah

883

:

did this all of us that are doing this

work for the sake of God, that, one day

884

:

the Prophet would be would look at it

right in the next life and Just smile

885

:

and just be grateful that his did so

much to make the world that much better.

886

:

Imam Tariq: You mentioned earlier, you

talked about the home you grew up in and

887

:

how, brothers would, would come home.

888

:

And your house was one of

their first stops, right?

889

:

They wanted that home cooked meal.

890

:

And that just speaks to,

that is community building.

891

:

That is providing safety.

892

:

That's recognizing the things that

actually make us feel like we're at home.

893

:

And nothing does that.

894

:

Like food and being

able to receive people.

895

:

So these are the things that connect us

going back to what you just mentioned.

896

:

What have you taken from, actually, I feel

like you answered this already, but if

897

:

you would expound maybe a little bit more,

what have you taken from that environment,

898

:

that upbringing, the openness?

899

:

Providing that kind of space.

900

:

What have you taken from that and carried

with you into the work that you do today?

901

:

Ustadha Hazel: One of the things

is we live in a culture of

902

:

selfishness and some people, and

it goes back to intentions, right?

903

:

Some people will do the work, Muslim

or not Muslim, and expect something

904

:

in return, or I did this for you.

905

:

Why can't you do it for me?

906

:

Kind of thing.

907

:

I learned from an early age.

908

:

of recognizing what privilege looks like.

909

:

I had a home that people could

come to and have a home cooked

910

:

meal, by my amazing grandmother.

911

:

And I learned early on, don't expect

anything from anyone, leave it to God.

912

:

And I saw that in my grandmother,

and I still see it in her, mashallah.

913

:

And I really took that away, because as I

got older in this, these organizing spaces

914

:

that I did this for you, you gotta do

this for me thing, I wasn't used to that.

915

:

So I'm grateful from a young age to have

been brought up with you just do it for

916

:

the sake of God, and you keep it moving.

917

:

And then the blessing, SubhanAllah,

because hindsight is always 20, 20,

918

:

the blessings that, that I'd noticed

that my grandparents would receive

919

:

when I would, just, I would be like,

no, or, I would be like the little,

920

:

trying to protect my grandparents

space and sanity and SubhanAllah, they

921

:

would ignore me and then I would see

the fruits and I'd be like, Oh, wow.

922

:

God, you are real.

923

:

I know you're real, but wow.

924

:

And I saw the sincerity

of my grandparents.

925

:

And so that's one thing

of just just let go.

926

:

Let God, as we see

everywhere, let go, let God.

927

:

And just do it for the sake of God,

have that intention and don't expect

928

:

anything in return and really not to

have that expectation and also to.

929

:

I really want to be a safe haven.

930

:

I've had men and women share

really heavy things with me.

931

:

And SubhanAllah, like very heavy.

932

:

And I remember one young woman.

933

:

I saw that something was wrong with her.

934

:

Like I saw it on her face

and I was like, what's wrong?

935

:

I see there's something

wrong with you anyways.

936

:

And we talked and I just appreciated that.

937

:

She said.

938

:

You're not, thank you

for not being judgmental.

939

:

And I was, I appreciate it, but I

was also like really taken aback.

940

:

I was like, what, like,

why would I be judgmental?

941

:

She's because if I shared this

with another, like Muslim.

942

:

they definitely would have judged me.

943

:

And I was like, listen, we're all people.

944

:

We're all human.

945

:

We're not perfect.

946

:

Like I'm here because I could

tell you need someone to talk

947

:

Imam Tariq: Right..

948

:

Ustadha Hazel: And even though

those things may be spiritually

949

:

heavy, I got to fortify myself and

make sure that my worship is on

950

:

lock and doing the best that I can.

951

:

So that, that stuff doesn't stick with me.

952

:

But to still, I, So that's sorry

for the long winded answer.

953

:

I guess it's just as I'm reflecting,

it's I want to be a safe haven for

954

:

people and be that connector and my

grandparents really exemplified in me

955

:

and showed me what that looks like.

956

:

And also watching my teachers, like

the sheikahs just like watching

957

:

how they navigate in the world.

958

:

And, I lived in I was in in Minnesota for

a summer with my four month old at the

959

:

time was studying to get an ijazah of the

40 hadith, and I had my four month old

960

:

nursing him, I was there for a little over

a month, so roughly five, six weeks, and

961

:

I just remember I went up to her one day

and I was like, I love how happy you are.

962

:

And it made me think of the prophet.

963

:

So I said I love how happy you are.

964

:

And, we talked and she just

chuckled and, SubhanAllah.

965

:

At the RCC, at the Roboto

Cultural Center, there is a huge

966

:

world map and it's upside down.

967

:

And it's a very Native American tradition.

968

:

She learned that, right?

969

:

And it's a Native American saying

essentially until the world gets right,

970

:

then we can put it right side up.

971

:

But right now it's upside down.

972

:

So people often ask, like,

why is the map upside down?

973

:

And she says that, and she

says it with conviction.

974

:

And she says it like, the world

is upside down and we're doing

975

:

our best To get it upright.

976

:

So I see her face in my, I see

her smiling face in my head.

977

:

And I see that map and

that's our goal, right?

978

:

We're supposed to be the Caliphs

on this earth at caretakers.

979

:

They were the caretakers of the

earth and the guardians of the earth.

980

:

How are we bringing joy to each other?

981

:

How are you bringing faith to each other?

982

:

Literally like really living it,

even with the difficulties, even

983

:

with the, Political chaos that we're

currently in that I almost feel like

984

:

I had a heart attack two days ago.

985

:

But it's, we still got to be joyful

because the prophesy showed us what it

986

:

looks like to go through stuff like this.

987

:

And we got this.

988

:

Bismillah.

989

:

We got to say Bismillah and keep going.

990

:

Imam Tariq: That's right.

991

:

That's right.

992

:

My final question.

993

:

In addition to everything that

you're doing, you're also a student

994

:

at Bayan Islamic graduate school.

995

:

Yes.

996

:

Can you talk a bit about

just how that came about?

997

:

What does that mean for you?

998

:

What value has that added?

999

:

To your to your seeking and, just you.

:

00:57:30,086 --> 00:57:30,796

Ustadha Hazel: Yeah.

:

00:57:30,916 --> 00:57:34,696

So I've had my eye on

Bayan for many years.

:

00:57:35,056 --> 00:57:40,206

I remember I went to LA for a

program to visit this, to attend

:

00:57:40,206 --> 00:57:43,836

the program at Bayan and also to

to check it out and ask questions.

:

00:57:44,546 --> 00:57:48,796

And I remember telling myself, I'm going

to, I'm going to get a degree at Bayonne.

:

00:57:49,296 --> 00:57:50,546

And that was like in:

:

00:57:50,546 --> 00:57:52,496

That was 10 years ago.

:

00:57:53,116 --> 00:57:53,426

SubhanAllah.

:

00:57:54,516 --> 00:57:55,716

And I was determined.

:

00:57:55,826 --> 00:57:58,766

And SubhanAllah.

:

00:57:59,406 --> 00:58:02,226

Bayan has been such a blessing.

:

00:58:02,226 --> 00:58:03,016

You don't make me cry.

:

00:58:05,476 --> 00:58:08,386

Bayan has, and I will

say why I chose Bayan.

:

00:58:09,116 --> 00:58:12,846

Of all, as I was looking into graduate

school and like what I wanted to

:

00:58:12,866 --> 00:58:17,096

focus on, SubhanAllah, God is the

best of planners because right now I

:

00:58:17,096 --> 00:58:17,976

want to go into movement chaplaincy.

:

00:58:19,326 --> 00:58:22,616

So I'm getting my MDiv in

chaplaincy and movement chaplaincy

:

00:58:22,616 --> 00:58:25,996

because I'm in organizing spaces

and very political spaces.

:

00:58:26,396 --> 00:58:27,966

And there's a lot of anger.

:

00:58:27,966 --> 00:58:30,706

There's a lot of difficulty that

happened in those spaces and, just

:

00:58:30,706 --> 00:58:31,956

mentoring people along the way.

:

00:58:32,366 --> 00:58:33,496

So that's my goal, inshallah.

:

00:58:33,496 --> 00:58:39,996

So I chose Bayan because from so

many years ago, I watched how they,

:

00:58:40,296 --> 00:58:46,806

intentionally had some of the top scholars

in this country be faculty there, right?

:

00:58:46,806 --> 00:58:48,336

Be, teach classes there.

:

00:58:48,636 --> 00:58:53,126

And I think that speaks to the importance

of our Islamic tradition is that

:

00:58:53,126 --> 00:58:55,806

there are experts in fields, right?

:

00:58:55,806 --> 00:58:59,906

You are a faqih because you

are an expert in fiqh, right?

:

00:58:59,946 --> 00:59:04,026

And, either you're an expert in all

four or you're an expert in one, right?

:

00:59:04,076 --> 00:59:05,136

You are.

:

00:59:06,006 --> 00:59:10,936

You specialize in, tafsir, then

you're the Quran person, right?

:

00:59:10,946 --> 00:59:14,226

Like you, this is the person you're going

to go to, to understand the meanings

:

00:59:14,226 --> 00:59:15,286

and the explanations of the Quran.

:

00:59:15,936 --> 00:59:20,006

So we have this in our tradition where

there are experts in different fields.

:

00:59:20,686 --> 00:59:26,066

And so you have Bayan where they have

chosen like experts in different fields.

:

00:59:26,596 --> 00:59:27,056

And.

:

00:59:27,461 --> 00:59:30,101

It's phenomenal, to learn from Dr.

:

00:59:30,101 --> 00:59:35,301

Zarina Grewal oh my goodness, to learn

from Sheikh, yes, absolutely loved your

:

00:59:35,301 --> 00:59:42,191

class, to learn from Sheikh Fouad El

Gouhary mashallah, just the kalam and

:

00:59:42,191 --> 00:59:46,801

the theology, this, the, these really

tough topics that we don't discuss enough

:

00:59:46,801 --> 00:59:49,841

within our community, to learn from, Dr.

:

00:59:49,841 --> 00:59:53,291

Waleed Mossad about the paradigms

of Islamic spirituality,

:

00:59:53,321 --> 00:59:54,391

because there's paradigms.

:

00:59:54,391 --> 00:59:57,241

It's not just one way

of Islamic spirituality.

:

00:59:57,521 --> 01:00:03,211

And Wahab, who like, my

goodness, I want his class.

:

01:00:03,461 --> 01:00:06,071

I want to take that class again,

or there should be a part two.

:

01:00:06,351 --> 01:00:07,271

A key is.

:

01:00:09,141 --> 01:00:13,821

He lives and breathes the Quran,

in this semester, I'm with Dr.

:

01:00:13,851 --> 01:00:18,181

Miriam Shabani on Islamic

law and legal theory, right?

:

01:00:18,181 --> 01:00:22,906

So it's, You have just all these

incredible individuals, and I'm

:

01:00:22,906 --> 01:00:25,355

still taking classes, inshallah.

:

01:00:25,355 --> 01:00:28,375

Hopefully I'll be done

in:

:

01:00:28,815 --> 01:00:29,755

Beginning of:

:

01:00:30,095 --> 01:00:30,825

Inshallah.

:

01:00:31,205 --> 01:00:35,700

But it's absolutely, Just incredible.

:

01:00:35,780 --> 01:00:40,210

I'm, I've benefited so much from their

expertise, from their experiences the

:

01:00:40,210 --> 01:00:45,250

conversations in class, in classes,

like my classmates blow my mind all the

:

01:00:45,260 --> 01:00:52,130

time because it's so powerful to sit

with individuals who are doing different

:

01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,110

community work and we're able to.

:

01:00:55,630 --> 01:00:59,020

Start having a conversation and I

know what you mean, let's get going.

:

01:00:59,170 --> 01:01:02,240

I see lunchtime, like whenever

we're at lunch together, for

:

01:01:02,250 --> 01:01:06,760

me, lunch is this is what in the

past the coffee shops were like.

:

01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:11,320

Like everybody just sitting

around talking and like trying

:

01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,090

to solve the world's problems.

:

01:01:13,130 --> 01:01:16,360

And we're over here in Hyde

Park trying to solve the umma's

:

01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:19,440

problems over lunch, right?

:

01:01:19,490 --> 01:01:23,255

Over this amazing lunch that

Cesar or Munir ordered, right?

:

01:01:23,255 --> 01:01:25,765

It's just, I get so happy.

:

01:01:25,775 --> 01:01:27,705

Mark knows, leave Hazel

alone during the week.

:

01:01:29,435 --> 01:01:29,465

She's

:

01:01:29,555 --> 01:01:30,375

like plotting.

:

01:01:30,375 --> 01:01:32,605

I'm like plotting and just SubhanAllah.

:

01:01:33,065 --> 01:01:36,555

But it's been, it just

makes me incredibly happy.

:

01:01:36,555 --> 01:01:40,955

And also to be able to have,

conversations with the administration.

:

01:01:41,390 --> 01:01:43,030

It also makes a big deal.

:

01:01:43,220 --> 01:01:45,830

It is a big deal to have

those conversations with with

:

01:01:45,830 --> 01:01:49,820

different instructors as well

as like the admin SubhanAllah.

:

01:01:49,850 --> 01:01:55,570

I think that my experience there has

been, I'm just incredibly grateful.

:

01:01:55,620 --> 01:01:57,340

MashaAllah, just incredibly grateful.

:

01:01:58,490 --> 01:01:58,870

Imam Tariq: Alhamdulillah.

:

01:01:59,965 --> 01:02:02,835

We have come to the end

of our conversation.

:

01:02:03,075 --> 01:02:06,915

I really feel like we could just

keep going on and on, but I thank

:

01:02:06,915 --> 01:02:11,275

you Ustadha Hazel for making the

time for this conversation and for

:

01:02:11,285 --> 01:02:13,345

sharing a window into your journey.

:

01:02:13,415 --> 01:02:17,120

May Allah continue to bless you,

your family, all of your endeavors.

:

01:02:17,630 --> 01:02:20,490

Listening family, I want to remind

you that you can support the work

:

01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:24,500

of Bayan Islamic Graduate School

directly by going to bayanonline.

:

01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:27,910

org, that's bayanonline.

:

01:02:27,940 --> 01:02:31,460

org, and donating to the

Muhammad Ali Scholarship.

:

01:02:32,290 --> 01:02:37,000

We've talked about this before,

over 70 percent of Bayan students

:

01:02:37,290 --> 01:02:38,860

are scholarship recipients.

:

01:02:39,250 --> 01:02:40,890

So you can support that work.

:

01:02:41,250 --> 01:02:43,780

By donating to the

Muhammad Ali scholarship.

:

01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:49,860

And you can also get your very own

window into that wonderful coursework

:

01:02:49,860 --> 01:02:54,710

that Ustada Hazel mentioned by getting

a subscription to Bayan On Demand.

:

01:02:54,770 --> 01:02:56,270

That's Bayan On Demand.

:

01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:57,650

It's 10 a month.

:

01:02:57,870 --> 01:03:00,700

We're adding more classes

as we go on right now.

:

01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:02,650

There are about 30

classes that are on there.

:

01:03:03,060 --> 01:03:07,280

And it's all yours for 10 a

month learning at your own pace.

:

01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:09,590

And how shall I end?

:

01:03:09,690 --> 01:03:13,290

I'm going to end by saying, don't

just get yourself a subscription, get

:

01:03:13,290 --> 01:03:14,710

a subscription for your loved ones.

:

01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,720

Get a subscription for that person

that you might be at odds with.

:

01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:22,470

Knowledge, useful knowledge has

the effect of producing peace.

:

01:03:22,730 --> 01:03:25,270

So go ahead and make peace

with somebody and get them a

:

01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:27,190

membership to Bayan on demand.

:

01:03:27,795 --> 01:03:30,075

All right, family, I'm going

to leave you as I greeted you.

:

01:03:30,395 --> 01:03:30,625

Assalamualaikum.

:

01:03:31,555 --> 01:03:33,855

May the peace that only

God can give be upon

:

01:03:33,855 --> 01:03:36,715

you.

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About the Podcast

The American Muslim Podcast
The voices, stories, and perspectives shaping the American Muslim Experience
The American Muslim Podcast is your gateway to exploring the diverse and dynamic stories shaping the American Muslim experience. Presented by Bayan On Demand, this podcast shines a spotlight on the voices of leaders who are making a profound impact in their communities—many of whom are students, alumni, and visiting faculty of Bayan Islamic Graduate School.

From imams and chaplains to Islamic school leaders, teachers, scholars, and non-profit pioneers, we celebrate those who dedicate themselves to serving others. These inspiring individuals include masjid leaders, community activists, and youth mentors who exemplify the values of faith, compassion, and resilience in their work.

Through insightful conversations and authentic narratives, we explore how these leaders navigate faith, identity, and service, offering a unique perspective on the evolving role of American Muslims in shaping society. Join us to uncover the stories of those who lead with purpose and embody the transformative mission of Bayan.

About your host

Profile picture for Tariq El-Amin

Tariq El-Amin

Imam Tariq I. El-Amin serves as the Resident Imam of Masjid Al-Taqwa in Chicago, IL. He is the founder of the Chicago Black Muslim History Tour and the former host of Sound Vision's Radio Islam, a nightly talk radio program that aired in the Chicago market. Tariq is a recipient of the Muhammad Ali Scholarship and earned a Master of Divinity in Islamic Chaplaincy from Bayan Islamic Graduate School in 2022. He is currently pursuing a Doctorate of Ministry in Islamic Community Leadership at Bayan, with expected completion in 2026. Tariq is also a producer of the award-winning UIC Black Excellence podcast, hosted by Dr. Aisha El-Amin, and lends his voice to narrating audiobooks.