Episode 16

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Published on:

1st May 2025

Imam Rushdan Mujahid-Deen: Turning Grief Into Guidance

Imam Rushdan Mujahid-Deen: Turning Grief Into Guidance

In this episode of the American Muslim Podcast, host Imam Tariq El-Amin welcomes Imam Rushdan Mujahid-Deen, the associate Imam at Masjid Bilal Islamic Center in Los Angeles and the first commissioned Muslim chaplain for the LAPD. Imam Mujahid-Deen shares his transformative journey of faith, inspired by the legacy of his mother and the teachings of Imam W. Deen Mohammed. He discusses his multifaceted roles as an Imam, hospital chaplain, and LAPD chaplain, articulating the emotional challenges, spiritual insights, and the importance of servant leadership. Imam Mujahid-Deen emphasizes the necessity of self-care for those in service positions and reflects on how his faith and personal experiences shape his approach to spiritual care and community leadership. He also touches on the upcoming community center at Masjid Bilal Islamic Center, designed to serve both Muslim and non-Muslim communities. The episode concludes with a call to support Bayan Islamic Graduate School and its initiatives.

00:00 Introduction to Bayan on Demand

00:56 Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast

01:22 Introducing Imam Rushdan Mujahid-Deen

02:38 Imam Rushdan's Early Life and Family

05:18 Journey into Chaplaincy

09:38 Roles and Responsibilities of a Chaplain

16:46 Servant Leadership and Community Service

23:01 Personal Reflections and Lessons Learned

25:02 Reflecting on Family and Upbringing

26:40 Daughter's Journey in Africa

27:42 Experiences with Family in Africa

29:41 Challenges in Chaplaincy

34:55 Interfaith Chaplaincy and End-of-Life Care

38:10 Self-Care for Leaders

42:55 The Bayan Experience

46:46 Conclusion and Call to Action

bayanonline.org

Subscribe to Bayan on demand at https://shorturl.at/wlQl7

Donate to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship at https://pages.donately.com/bayan/campaign/2028-endowment-campaign/donate 

Cover Art & Intro Music - Tariq I. El-Amin @ImamTariqElamin

🎧 Listen & Subscribe: Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other major streaming platforms.


Transcript
Imam Tariq:

Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught

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by highly regarded scholars and

practitioners, designed for masjid board

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members, school administrators, imams,

chaplains, youth workers, parents,

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theology, adolescent development,

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history of Islam in America and more.

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Bayan on Demand provides accessible

knowledge for just $10 a month.

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Join our growing community of

learners today and support the work

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of Baan Islamic Graduate School

and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship.

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Go to baan online.org.

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That's B-A-Y-A-N online.org

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to get more information.

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As Salaamu Alaikum, may the peace

that only God can give be upon you.

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Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast.

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I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin, and it

is my pleasure to bring to you yet again

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another conversation with a different

leader willing to share, pieces of their

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journey, what has helped them to get to

where they are, the work that they do.

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But as we always like to say,

it's not just the work, it's

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the people doing the work.

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And today, we are blessed to have

with us Imam Rashad Mujahid-Deen who

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serves as the, associate Imam at Masjid

Bilal Islamic Center in Los Angeles.

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He studied Koranic, Arabic tir, Islamic

studies and comparative religion

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under the late Imam w Dein Muhammad

and Koran memorization in Senegal.

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In 2020, he earned an MDiv

in Islamic chaplaincy from

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Ban Islamic graduate school.

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And he's currently pursuing

CPE training expected to

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complete at Cedar-Sinai in 2025.

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In 2022, he became LAPD's first commission

Muslim chaplain, and he anticipates

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completing his doctorate in 2026.

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As Salaamu Alaikum, my brother

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Imam Rushdan: Wa

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Alaikum As Salaam

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my friend.

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Imam Tariq: Well, I really

appreciate you making the time.

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I know you're on the West Coast, so

we got a little bit of a Yes, sir.

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A difference in time.

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But, and I don't know if our listeners

will be able to hear those beautiful

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birds in the background or not

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Imam Rushdan: I appreciate

you reaching out.

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Imam Tariq: So

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We like to let our guests know that

this is a space that they can be

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as transparent, as vulnerable, as

open as they are comfortable being

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and sharing those slices of life.

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those memories, those insights

that have meaning to you, and the

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hope that our listeners also will

find meaning in them as well.

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So now that I've set the stage, I

want to ask you, what's the first

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memory or what's the first event,

that you can look back at that has had

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an impact on your trajectory, today?

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Imam Rushdan: That's a good question.

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I think about what I do in the

community and as a chaplain.

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I think about my,

relationship with my mother.

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I was seven years old when she died,

and I have a lot of good memories

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with her Moved here from the South

with my father and, she was young.

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She was 28 years old when she died.

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So after that, her family

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in a very big way.

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her first cousin uprooted her family

from Memphis, Tennessee, and brought

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them here to California, to take care

of us, because my mother, knew she

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was dying and she asked her cousin.

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You know, 'cause she take care

of her two boys when she dies.

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And she did that.

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as a matter of fact, she was pregnant and

she had a baby on her way from Memphis

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to California, and she still came.

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And, her other cousin, you

know, we went to Tennessee.

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My father sent us to Tennessee and

her, my mother's first cousin, she took

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us on the Greyhound bus to Tennessee.

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And I can remember her teaching

us how to read, license plates.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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Imam Rushdan: So, and my father's

sister, she stepped in like a mother.

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they say your aunties are like,

the next thing to your mother.

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And she really stepped in.

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those moments really have inspired

me, to want to, do religious work

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because I wanna live a righteous life.

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And, I remember my auntie

telling me, I was young about 16.

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I was just kind of going

through a rough spot.

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It's getting in a lot of trouble.

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And she said, boy, you want to live

as if your mother's watching you.

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So that stuck with me.

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Imam Tariq: Wow.

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Imam Rushdan: that's still with me today.

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So I wanna live a life that I

know that she would be proud of.

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And I want to serving people just

like my family served me and my

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brother when we were at a very

vulnerable point of our lives.

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So that's my motivation.

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and serving God, that's doing God's work.

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I wanna please Allah, please our Lord.

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And, all the relationships and

friends that I've, made since becoming

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Muslim also serve, you know, as

a big motivation for me as well.

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Imam Tariq: Wow.

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thank you so much for sharing that.

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There is so much in that, that I want

to go into, but I first want to lift

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up, you know, in our tradition we say

that the highest form of faith is to

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worship Allah to worship God is if we

see him that's the very highest right.

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Call that Ihsan.

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Imam Rushdan: Yes, sir.

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Imam Tariq: And when you said that

your aunt is saying that you're

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acting like your mother can't see you.

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Imam Rushdan: No, she said to

behave as if your mother sees you.

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Imam Tariq: To behave as

if your mother sees you.

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And that's the first

thing that came to mind.

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I was like, wow.

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what a, kind of a progression

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Of consciousness where, you know, we don't

wanna displease our mothers and of course

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we don't want to displease our creator.

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Imam Rushdan: Yes, sir.

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Imam Tariq: can you tell me, in your

aunt's response to your mother's

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passing, did you feel like that was

something that was rooted in faith?

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Or did you feel like that was

more related to the family bond?

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The family obligation.

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Imam Rushdan: I feel more,

it was a family obligation.

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they wasn't really religious people.

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They from the South Tennessee.

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So I assume they had, a religious

background, religious upbringing, but I

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think it was more that was a part of it.

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But I think it was more just

a family, the family bond.

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You know, I know my mother's mother

was religious and I lived with her.

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We was in church all the time.

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But my father's side, I don't

think they were too religious.

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so my aunt, it was more of a, she

saw it more as a family obligation,

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you know, to help my father.

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And from what I understand, her and

my mother was, they were very close.

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And she named her daughter after

my mother, you know, so, I think

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it was more of a family obligation.

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Imam Tariq: Well, I asked because

you made a connection between, your

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childhood experience said you wanted to

live a righteous life to help people.

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and now, all these years later, as a

chaplain, did you see that as a moment

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that kind of connected you to your faith?

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Imam Rushdan: I had a patient

in my first unit of CPE.

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And, he died in the hospital.

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But I saw when I first, my first

encounter with him is when he first

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came into the hospital, he was strong.

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He was tall, gentleman,

maybe 6, 5, 6, 6 strong.

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he didn't look like someone that

was getting ready that was dying.

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So I saw him progress from a

strong diplomatic looking man to,

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to a feeble human being, dying.

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And he died.

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He died while I was

visiting him and his son.

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So that just kind of reminded me, how

life is short and how, and you never

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know when your Lord is going to call you.

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and

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so I reflected, that was the

beginning, really the reflection

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on my life of my mother.

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It was very short, but very memorable.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: She expected to die, but

she didn't know when, because she caught

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an illness very early in age and couldn't

get it taken care of because, you know,

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in the south they had no insurance

and they, couldn't take care of it.

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But when she married my father,

he had insurance, but it was

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really too late to cure her.

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So that experience, got me to just kind

of reflecting on life a lot and connecting

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me, to our Lord and just never know when

he will call you back, you know, he can

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be strong today and we can die tomorrow.

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Imam Tariq: Mm.

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So you provide chaplaincy services

in a number of different spaces from

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the hospital in a municipal space

for the la PD, as the first Muslim

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chaplain for the LAPD, is that correct?

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Imam Rushdan: Yes, sir.

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Imam Tariq: So what was already in you

that has assisted you and able to provide

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spiritual care to people, you know, at

various stages of distress or illness?

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What was already in you and

what have you had to refine?

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Imam Rushdan: Oh, well

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I think it was in me just it was

always in me as a young boy coming

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up just by receiving the care

that I got for my extended family

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Imam Tariq: mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: And the support.

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But I think I became to recognize

it as I began to serve the

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community as an Imam at the masjid.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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Imam Rushdan: And, you know,

we get approached by all kinds

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of people's personal problems

it didn't seem to faze me.

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It didn't seem to bother

me, to want to help people.

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sometimes you get overburdened

and like, man, why?

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Why are you coming to me with this?

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So I never felt that way, you know?

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So I like, man, this must be

something that I was created to do.

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You know, and I'm kind of quiet, you know,

so people feel comfortable coming to me.

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they assume that I won't judge, I

won't display the issues abroad,

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you know, to other people.

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So they feel comfortable.

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And so, and what was your second

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Imam Tariq: part of the question?

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and what else have you had to refine

and to be more specific Oh, yeah.

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Because you are, uh, in the pursuit of

education and further qualification.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Imam Rushdan: I've had to

refine, my, listening skills.

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Imam Tariq: Hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: Although

I'm quiet, I listen.

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but sometimes you don't hear everything

because you get caught up in the

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emotion, emotional part of it.

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and you take that person's,

emotion you take them on.

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You know, so you forget to hear that

you are there to listen to that person,

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take those issues As your own, and you

began to, project your ideas onto the

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patient, onto the other person as opposed

to addressing their issue, you know?

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So I've had to develop that and

being in the hospital helped me

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to do that because we are there.

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for the patient and to listen to them as

opposed to, someone in the public space,

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you know, you're just getting out of your

car and they run up to your car and they

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have all kinds of issues on you, and you

kind of subconsciously block 'em out so

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working in the hospital has kind of helped

me create that balance, so to speak.

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Yeah.

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So now I can better serve, be a better

servant leader in the community as well.

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masjid or mosque.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

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Imam Tariq: So looking at those three

different areas that you've served

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in or that you continue to serve in

as an imam, as a hospital chaplain,

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and then as a chaplain for the police

department, what immediately comes to

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mind for me is in the maji or the mosque,

there is an expectation, often there's

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an expectation that we'll provide an

answer to whatever question is being

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presented or whatever the issue is.

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In the hospital setting, there

is an expectation Of presence.

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and in the police setting, working

with a police department, it might

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be that the expectation is one of

helping people to process, emotions or,

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the way they see certain situations,

would you agree that is accurate?

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And what else might you add to that?

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in terms of the differences

between those spaces?

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Imam Rushdan: Yeah, that's very accurate.

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you have a very keen

sense of, understanding.

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So that's what I like about you.

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every time I listen to you rather,

Imam Tariq, it sharpens me.

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You know?

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So I always appreciate

being in your presence.

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Imam Tariq: Oh,

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likewise.

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Imam Rushdan: So, you're right there

on point with that in the hospital,

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you not expected to have an answer, you

to give your presence and to listen.

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and really sometimes the best way

to help someone is, not to talk.

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Listen to them.

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Imam Tariq: Hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: For example, I had

a patient, she asked her how she's

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feeling and she went and on about

her family, you know, her childhood,

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her time with her father, her mother,

her siblings and her community.

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And, but I didn't say anything she

talked for about 15, 20 minutes.

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So at the end of the, encounter, she

said, you know, I really don't know what's

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wrong with me, but you helped me a lot.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: So that was very

fulfilling for satisfying for me.

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You know, she just needed

someone to talk to.

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In the police setting, the pro

you write processes, you know,

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they LAPD going through a lot.

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It is a big city.

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It's something always happening.

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The change of leadership is changing.

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the older officers are not really

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adjusting to the change 'cause there's

more accountability now, whereas 20

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years ago there was no accountability.

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You know, so they adjusting to that

process and because of that, a lot of

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'em are going into early retirement.

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So you got younger officers now coming

up, under the new style of leadership.

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And, they come from very

diverse backgrounds.

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and their experience with the police

coming up wasn't always too good.

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And now, so now there are

police officers, it is something

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for them to deal with, right?

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And the maji, you are

expected to have answers.

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you are expected to fix every problem.

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If it's a family problem, if it

is, fixing a lock on the bathroom

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door, IAM is the go-to person.

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So, you just, get overwhelmed sometimes,

but you do it because you love people.

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You know, and that's the key.

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You got to love or you got to love people.

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Yeah.

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You got to love people to

continue to do this kind of work.

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Imam Tariq: Absolutely.

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I would say outside of Prophet

Muhammad, peace and prayers be upon him.

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Is there a person that you can point to?

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That you would say is an embodiment

of that service rooted in love of

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the people that they served, that

you have used as an inspiration?

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Imam Rushdan: Yeah, I would say,

Imam W Deen Mohammed, when I first

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became Muslim, I got attracted to

the religion just through, through

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Malcolm X, like a lot of people.

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And, what I appreciated about him is his

militancy and his keen insight on issues.

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And,

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I was getting ready to

join the Nation of Islam.

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I wrote my letter.

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And they sent it back and told

me to go to the nearest temple or

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nearest mosque, but I never made it.

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Brother.

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Start talking about Imam Muhammad and

I had a, received a newspaper article.

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His title was common sense.

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He wrote about common sense

and he just, he was very clear

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about what the religion was.

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It was a very common sense religion

and it is very spiritually, base.

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So

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I, so he be, he, I began very

interested in him, in his message

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and I started to learn about him.

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And, once I took class with him, I

had a chance to kind of get a more

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close personal relationship with him.

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And he would talk very candid about how

he was feeling about things and, and how

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he felt about the believers, all of the

sacrifices he made, for the community

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. Because he wanted to help the community.

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He wanted to help the people.

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And, when I became an Imam in Gary,

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. I invited him to Gary and, he came, it

was like almost a foot of snow, and it

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was in the wintertime, January, 2008,

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right before he passed, he

came and he embraced me.

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He said, we're together, brother Imam.

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so that told me a lot about

what kind of leader he was.

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Imam Tariq: what did you learn from him?

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What did you take from his example

in terms of service of a community

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Imam Rushdan: there's a picture of

him serving the elderly, serving the

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pioneers that picture he serving dinner.

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So it, that picture right there

alone told me that he was a servant

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for the people and he embodied that.

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He embodied that throughout his whole

time, I had encountered him:

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became Muslim until the time he died.

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That he was a servant.

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He loved the people.

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He was there to serve the people.

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he was there to nourish and feed

the people and to give us what we

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needed to live a life of a Muslim.

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yeah.

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So I can't think of any mean,

there's a lot of specifics, but

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that picture there by itself kind of

embodied his whole, his life's work.

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Imam Tariq: We know service

is synonymous with leadership.

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And we know that there are different

areas, different ways that people lead.

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You mentioned servant leadership earlier.

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Is that your preferred

model of leadership?

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And if so, why?

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Imam Rushdan: Servant leadership.

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I like that model.

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We've studied that model, and that seemed

to be, the best model, at least for me.

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'cause they say, you can't be a good

leader if you're not a good servant.

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So if we want to lead people and

have people follow us and take advice

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from us and follow our example,

we have to be willing to serve.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: we can't ask people

to do what we're not willing to do.

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Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

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Imam Rushdan: There's many examples

of the prophet prayers and a peace

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be upon him where he was In the thick

of things, helping to build a mosque.

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They said they saw him carrying bricks.

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So we have to be, we have to be those.

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I want to be that kind of leader is

to have people follow my example.

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Make myself available to their

needs and to their concerns.

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And not just, you know, brow beating

people all the time, and you're not

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doing this, you're not doing that.

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Just be the example of

what we want people to do.

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And if you're good, people will

follow you and they will support you.

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And sometimes they would be your

leader in certain aspects of things.

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You know, and you had to

be willing to accept that.

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Imam Tariq: Did you start out in Gary.

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Imam Rushdan: No, I

started off in Los Angeles.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

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As an imam, I wound up in Gary.

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Yeah.

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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Imam Rushdan: I moved

to Gary in late:

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we were invested in real estate

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Imam Tariq: Okay.

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Imam Rushdan: So we had

a couple of properties.

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And so I wanted to move to Gary

to, to, well, well, three reasons.

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because of the property.

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I wanted to oversee our projects.

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Our son, he was living in,

Wisconsin, so be closer to him.

355

:

And then in 1999, Muhammad came

to California, and that was right

356

:

around the time he started his youth.

357

:

dawa program.

358

:

So I asked him if I could

enroll in his class.

359

:

He said, yeah, come on.

360

:

And so it took me five years to get ready.

361

:

Imam Tariq: Mm.

362

:

Imam Rushdan: So I went for those

reasons, to study with Imam Mohammed

363

:

to oversee our real estate projects,

and to be closer to my son.

364

:

and while there, they

wanted me to be the Imam.

365

:

Imam Tariq: Was this at

the Gary Muslim Center?

366

:

Imam Rushdan: Yes, sir.

367

:

Gary Muslim Center.

368

:

Imam Tariq: Okay.

369

:

Imam Rushdan: All right.

370

:

Yeah, from 2005 to 2008, I was there.

371

:

Imam Tariq: Okay.

372

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

373

:

Imam Tariq: Alright.

374

:

I want you to finish a

few sentences for me.

375

:

All right.

376

:

I'm gonna give you a sentence

and I want you to finish it all.

377

:

Alright.

378

:

I feel most grounded when,

379

:

Imam Rushdan: when I'm in

the grind with the people.

380

:

Or in the mix

381

:

With the people.

382

:

'cause I feel connected not only

to the people, but to the work.

383

:

And that keeps me grounded.

384

:

Imam Tariq: The one

lesson I keep learning is

385

:

Imam Rushdan: be patient

386

:

and humble.

387

:

Well, that's two.

388

:

So patient and humble.

389

:

Imam Tariq: We'll take 'em.

390

:

It is a set.

391

:

Imam Rushdan: Alright.

392

:

Imam Tariq: Alright.

393

:

The hardest thing I've had to unlearn is

394

:

Imam Rushdan: that it's not about me.

395

:

Imam Tariq: That it's not about

396

:

you.

397

:

Imam Rushdan: It's not about me.

398

:

I wanna take things personal.

399

:

Imam Tariq: What gives me hope is

400

:

Imam Rushdan: Allah gives me hope.

401

:

And, his prophet Muhammad,

peace be upon him.

402

:

But I want to add to that, when I think

about my relationship with my daughter

403

:

in Africa, um,

404

:

I know you probably just wanted one word.

405

:

Imam Tariq: No, no.

406

:

Whatever comes to mind for

you, however you deliver it.

407

:

Imam Rushdan: Oh, okay.

408

:

Yeah.

409

:

So my daughter is, my wife's

niece and we adopted her.

410

:

So we took her in and I moved to Africa.

411

:

We took her in when she

was about six months.

412

:

And she gave us, a lot of hope, you know,

that, Allah would give you what you need.

413

:

and then coincidentally, I don't

wanna say coincidentally, but

414

:

I had a daughter that died,

415

:

and she was born September 12th, and my

adopted daughter was born September 12th.

416

:

Imam Tariq: subhana'Allah

417

:

Imam Rushdan: So that gave me a lot

of hope that, you know, life goes on.

418

:

You know, it goes on in

different ways, but it goes on.

419

:

Imam Tariq: Did you immediately make the

connection between your own upbringing

420

:

and losing your mother and being raised

by your aunt to find yourself all these

421

:

years later adopting, a baby girl who is.

422

:

Your wife's niece, her

being raised by her aunt.

423

:

Imam Rushdan: No, I

424

:

didn't.

425

:

I didn't.

426

:

Now you giving me a whole

nother trajectory, brother.

427

:

So,

428

:

, wow, man.

429

:

wow.

430

:

You know, that's something

I appreciate that insight.

431

:

Imam Tariq: Well, I appreciate

you sharing that with us.

432

:

so did that experience, did it open

or expand the way you see family?

433

:

Because sometimes people see

it as a very insular thing.

434

:

It's just the people in my house

is just my biological parents.

435

:

It's just those Yeah.

436

:

People who are My nuclear family.

437

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

438

:

Imam Tariq: so that kind of primes you

to see family in a much, broader sense.

439

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah, it did.

440

:

Just one experience.

441

:

I was with my, one of my brothers

442

:

and, well, I went to Africa

443

:

2014.

444

:

I'm sorry.

445

:

Just, I'm sorry.

446

:

If, if, I'm gonna put a pen in there.

447

:

I'm gonna come back to that in a second.

448

:

Tell us.

449

:

Okay.

450

:

Imam Tariq: So why is your

daughter in Africa now?

451

:

Imam Rushdan: Well, she's born there.

452

:

Okay.

453

:

And so, couple reasons.

454

:

she wanted to go to Quran school.

455

:

'cause all of her sisters

and brothers were going.

456

:

So, her father wanted to send

her and she wanted to go.

457

:

and then she didn't

have all her paperwork.

458

:

they lost whatever they had that proved

that she was a actual person, human being.

459

:

So we just, so that's

those are the two reasons.

460

:

So we had planned to let her finish

Qur'an school and bring her here and, at

461

:

the same time Get her paperwork right.

462

:

So we got the paperwork started, but

we don't know now with this Trump

463

:

thing, how he's gonna block that.

464

:

So I think she'll probably be finished

with school next year sometime.

465

:

And then insha'Allah,

we'll bring her here.

466

:

She'll be about 12 or 13 years old then.

467

:

Okay.

468

:

Bring her here and home and school.

469

:

Her

470

:

Imam Tariq: and Shallah

471

:

Imam Rushdan: insha'Allah

472

:

Imam Tariq: Now you were saying there

was an experience with your brother.

473

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

474

:

You know, so I went to Africa.

475

:

when my wife got married,

they were in Africa.

476

:

They had a party for us in Africa.

477

:

They was on the phone and partying.

478

:

And so when I went to Africa.

479

:

The whole family was there to greet me.

480

:

The grandmother, the sisters and

brothers, and all the grandchildren,

481

:

nieces and everybody, right?

482

:

big feast, man.

483

:

I didn't even expect that.

484

:

So when I came back and, I was

with my brother, I said, man,

485

:

I'm back, man, this ain't out.

486

:

You know?

487

:

Oh man, I gotta do something with my wife.

488

:

I said, well, cool.

489

:

We should go over there.

490

:

You know, I could see

my, nieces and nephews.

491

:

Oh man, I, you know, man.

492

:

This is family day.

493

:

I'm family and my family.

494

:

Oh man.

495

:

You know, my wife.

496

:

So

497

:

I told my stepmother, his mother, I

said, I'm trying to hang out with him.

498

:

I haven't seen the guy in two years.

499

:

I haven't, seen my nieces and nephews.

500

:

I want to go see him.

501

:

You know, his family is it is just them.

502

:

they don't do nothing with nobody.

503

:

So, it was just a difference how we

Muslims or how we view family and how,

504

:

family is viewed in a western context.

505

:

Like you said, just the nuclear family,

me, my children, my wife, and that's it.

506

:

Everybody else is, you know,

we'll see you when we see you.

507

:

So

508

:

I was taken aback and kind of hurt.

509

:

You know, because I

raised that, I raised him.

510

:

He's 10 years younger than me.

511

:

I raised him.

512

:

I used to cook for him every weekend.

513

:

You know, so I was kind of hurt.

514

:

But we good now, we good.

515

:

We good.

516

:

Imam Tariq: It's interesting to hear

you articulate that you were hurt

517

:

in that, that situation what does it

mean for you to be aware of your own

518

:

emotions, your own internal state?

519

:

In a profession, going back to chaplaincy

in particular where you have to.

520

:

Provide care for others who are in

varying states of potential distress.

521

:

how much does your own awareness

of where you are internally impact

522

:

the way that you show up in those

spaces that you have to provide care?

523

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

524

:

Sometimes

525

:

that's hard to do.

526

:

'cause in each encounter, if it's

community or hospital, more so than

527

:

with LAPD, but people would be talking

to you more so in the hospital.

528

:

they'd be talking to you about what

they're experiencing and a lot of

529

:

times they are experiencing what you

experience at some point in your life.

530

:

And you can get emotional about it.

531

:

You know, I had a patient, his experience

with his mother was the same as mine.

532

:

So I kind of got emotional about it,

it brings up a lot of feelings inside.

533

:

So we have to learn.

534

:

You have to learn.

535

:

that's why I said it is not about me.

536

:

you have to learn that it's not about me.

537

:

it is about taking care

of the other person.

538

:

And sometimes it's hard to do,

539

:

when you're in that hospital setting.

540

:

More so than it is in the community.

541

:

When you want to, show empathy

towards people understanding that

542

:

they going through some real life

situations and, you want to help.

543

:

But at the same time,

544

:

you don't want to Take advantage

of their vulnerability.

545

:

Imam Tariq: You know,

you don't wanna do that.

546

:

So when you say take advantage

of their vulnerability, are you

547

:

saying that you don't want to be

in a care encounter and position

548

:

yourself as the one who needs care?

549

:

They're They're sharing a painful

story, or they're in their situation

550

:

and now they're passing you a tissue.

551

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

552

:

So they start talking and you say, well,

you know, the same thing happened to me.

553

:

Right.

554

:

You start talking about yourself.

555

:

Right.

556

:

So you don't want to, you gotta

be careful not to do that.

557

:

, Imam Tariq: but would you say that.

558

:

One of the distinctions of chaplaincy

in particular, and maybe we can get to

559

:

how this may also relate to serving the

community as imams, but I as chaplains,

560

:

the kind of the cold detachment

that we're sort of used to seeing

561

:

from medical professionals.

562

:

Nurses have to, tend

to folks all day long.

563

:

Doctors have to deal with people all

day long in varying stages of, distress.

564

:

And I guess there's a certain

kind of a bedside manner or

565

:

a detachment in particular.

566

:

Like I said, it can be very

cold and clinical from some.

567

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

568

:

Imam Tariq: Right.

569

:

But the chaplain is really expected to.

570

:

I guess maintain some boundary,

but that detachment is something

571

:

that's not necessarily supposed

to be there with the chaplain.

572

:

The chaplain's supposed to be that

person that you feel a connection to.

573

:

Imam Rushdan: Yeah.

574

:

Yeah.

575

:

that's the main thing because

like you said, the chaplain

576

:

is a part of that care team.

577

:

Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

578

:

Imam Rushdan: But they

in, in a different aspect.

579

:

You know, doctors and nurses are always

in there, you know, they want to poke

580

:

on a patient and it is just always, you

know, from a medical standpoint, but the

581

:

chaplain is there to, to give confidence

solace to the person who's experiencing,

582

:

some kind of trauma in their life.

583

:

And not just to the patient,

but to the families as well.

584

:

I had an account on

yesterday to see the patient.

585

:

He wasn't in the room.

586

:

They took him out to have a procedure

done, but the wife was there and she asked

587

:

me to stay, 'cause she wanted to talk.

588

:

She was going through a lot of trauma.

589

:

Imam Tariq: Mm-hmm.

590

:

Imam Rushdan: You know, and she

talked for 30 minutes and, wow.

591

:

She had a lot on her

mind, a lot on her heart.

592

:

A lot of things were weighing

heavy and she wanted to talk.

593

:

she can't, don't have,

the family's not close.

594

:

and the, you know, the doctors and

nurses, they really don't have time.

595

:

So I was a person that she could talk to.

596

:

So there's a bond there that you gotta

recognize boundaries, but there is a

597

:

bond and a connection that we, that

the chaplain will have, you know, with

598

:

the patient and their family members.

599

:

You know.

600

:

Imam Tariq: Imam, could you talk about.

601

:

Your experience as you go through this

CPE process, this clinical pastoral

602

:

education process at Cedar St.

603

:

Sinai?

604

:

As a Muslim chaplain Yes.

605

:

Who, like all other chaplains,

you have to see everyone.

606

:

You're there to provide spiritual care

for everyone irrespective of faith.

607

:

Are there situations where there needs to

be an alignment of faith where if you have

608

:

a Catholic patient that it's best to have

a Catholic chaplain, a Muslim patient.

609

:

A Muslim chaplain?

610

:

And how do you navigate those situations

when that alignment is not present?

611

:

Imam Rushdan: well, I got hired to be the

Muslim to attend to Muslim patients, but

612

:

during CPE we see everybody, So it's, more

interfaith and, just in a straight visit,

613

:

straight encounter, there's no difference.

614

:

People want to be heard.

615

:

People want to talk, they want to express,

what they're going through spiritually.

616

:

it doesn't become different.

617

:

It only becomes different when

there's, end of life situations.

618

:

Everybody have their own

rituals that they do.

619

:

So that's the only difference.

620

:

But just a straight visit,

I'm just going straight.

621

:

If I'm visiting a Jewish patient,

Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, you

622

:

know, it's just you going in there

to listen to the patient and, you try

623

:

to find when there's a prayer, you

try to find, a prayer, that's common.

624

:

for everybody, So I'll maybe

read something from the Koran

625

:

if I can think of something.

626

:

from the Bible and

627

:

If there's a Buddhist, before I go into

the room, I'll find, something or pull up

628

:

something from the, Buddhist tradition,

a Jewish tradition, and I'll take you

629

:

with me just in case they wanted to pray.

630

:

Imam Tariq: Right.

631

:

Imam Rushdan: but in

general, it's all the same.

632

:

there's no difference in how we treat

a patient spiritually, you know?

633

:

Okay.

634

:

I did have a end of, I had a end of life.

635

:

I had a end of, I was, there's the

end of life situation, with a Catholic

636

:

patient, and I was only chaplain on duty.

637

:

the supervisor asked me to go

in there to give end of life.

638

:

I said, oh, man, how am

I gonna get out of this?

639

:

I told her.

640

:

I don't know the end of life.

641

:

I don't know the ritual.

642

:

She said, well, we got a book, you

can take it with you and read it.

643

:

So that killed that one.

644

:

So I said, I'll tell

you what I'm gonna do.

645

:

I'm gonna go give the,

'cause the family was there.

646

:

I said, I'm gonna go give the book

to the family and let them read it.

647

:

And I told her, I saw

the brother was there.

648

:

I said, yeah, I'm gonna have,

I don't know your tradition, so

649

:

here's the end of life prayer.

650

:

You can read it and I'll

stand by and listen.

651

:

And if you want to talk to me,

I'm here to, for you to talk.

652

:

So they did the prayer, so it satisfied

him, and then it, you know, I didn't have

653

:

to, you know, pray to Jesus or whatever.

654

:

So I satisfied him and it

turned out to be a good visit.

655

:

Imam Tariq: Now you have talked about.

656

:

Varying levels of service.

657

:

And I know we have a limited amount of

time, but I do feel like it's important

658

:

to ask how do you manage self-care?

659

:

and this is a particularly important

Question and answer, especially

660

:

for those who are listening

who may be aspiring chaplains.

661

:

and really for anybody in any

leadership position, self-care is

662

:

something that we often overlook.

663

:

So how do you manage that?

664

:

Imam Rushdan: It's been

very hard Imam Tariq.

665

:

'cause you get caught up in, you just

get caught up in doing all this work.

666

:

You know, it's, you got chaplaincy,

Imam, you know, it's, it is time

667

:

consuming and you gotta find, it is

hard to find time to care for self.

668

:

You have to.

669

:

You, essentially, you have to

change, alter your lifestyle.

670

:

And sometimes that's hard to do.

671

:

You gotta find time to go work out,

you know, find time to take a walk or

672

:

go watch a movie or whatever you do.

673

:

so I, that's one of my struggles But I

think the best self care is really, try

674

:

to find a way to, to detach yourself away

from all the work, all the busy stuff.

675

:

you get invitations to talk

somewhere, you know, I, I turn a

676

:

lot of stuff down, saying no, saying

no, and be comfortable with that.

677

:

stick to what's important

and what's essential.

678

:

And that's to serve your Lord

and take care of your family.

679

:

And the only way you can do that,

we had to take care of ourself,

680

:

And take care of ourself.

681

:

Imam Tariq: Now I'm putting this

question to you, but I put it

682

:

to myself before I even said it.

683

:

would you agree that most or many

people in service related or, leadership

684

:

positions, community service positions

685

:

have this unfair or unrealistic

belief about their own,

686

:

essentiality or essentialness?

687

:

if I don't do it, it won't get done.

688

:

Yeah.

689

:

That I'm, you know, I gotta be there.

690

:

Imam Rushdan: that is that

691

:

that is a tendency because we're so,

we, so we're so attached to what we do.

692

:

and that's a part of being a servant

leader and a chaplain is to recognize

693

:

the talents in other people.

694

:

You know, so I heard, I heard

a speaker who, I forgot who

695

:

he was, no matter of fact, no.

696

:

Master p.

697

:

He was talking, he said, if, you had

to surround, you surround your people

698

:

with people of knowledge, and if you are

the, if you are the smartest person in

699

:

the room, why do you need other people?

700

:

Why am I paying you to

do what I know how to do?

701

:

So we have to, I think we get more done.

702

:

As leaders, if we can entrust

people and empower their skills

703

:

and their ability to assist us.

704

:

we can't do everything.

705

:

Imam Muhammad said there's sometimes

there, there are people listening to

706

:

the coup coupon No more than you know,

707

:

help can come from everybody and anyone.

708

:

We have to accept that.

709

:

Imam Tariq: I'll add to that by

saying that personally I spend a fair

710

:

amount of time at the, cemeteries.

711

:

whether I'm visiting relatives or it's

an internment, but I spend a good amount

712

:

of time there and it's actually one

of the places I feel most at peace.

713

:

And I bring that up to say this

for all of us who have this idea

714

:

that we are essential, that if we

don't do it, it won't get done.

715

:

The cemeteries are full of essential

people who at the beginning of

716

:

their day, were, but they woke up

thinking that I need to go do this.

717

:

I need to go do this,

I need to go do that.

718

:

And if I don't do it, it won't get done.

719

:

Life will move on without us.

720

:

We are not as essential

as we think we are.

721

:

So let that be an invitation to

take self care more seriously.

722

:

and I say that to myself first.

723

:

Imam Rushdan: That's a good reminder.

724

:

Imam Tariq: Oh, I encourage it.

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

I tell people all the time, you know.

727

:

so you are on track as I am,

we are fellow cohort members in

728

:

Bayan Islamic graduate schools.

729

:

inaugural doctoral cohort.

730

:

but you've also done as, I have,

you've also done the masters, the MDiv.

731

:

Imam Rushdan: Yes, sir.

732

:

Imam Tariq: What has the Bayan

experience, meant for you, in terms

733

:

of this stage of your, development?

734

:

Imam Rushdan: Well, Bayan general

has really opened my eyes up

735

:

to a world of possibilities.

736

:

I never thought, you know, with my

background, I never thought my life would

737

:

be on this track to see, you know, having

an opportunity to pursue higher education.

738

:

it really gave me an opportunity

to see, what's possible.

739

:

And, each professor, I mean, they're good

740

:

when you meet 'em, when

you're encountering them.

741

:

So

742

:

I would say the one that,

743

:

we took, Studying leadership styles.

744

:

I think that was what emailed Jihad.

745

:

Yeah.

746

:

So that one there, it really helped

me to see what type, what type

747

:

of person I am or what type of

leader I am or should aspire to be.

748

:

So that really impacted the way,

I view myself, how I lead people,

749

:

how I participate in the community,

how I work with my Imam, you know.

750

:

so I think reflecting on that, has really

helped us to better our relationship

751

:

so that we can really serve the

community the way it needs to be served.

752

:

So going through some times, and

I just kind of reflected on how

753

:

to prophet dealt with issues and.

754

:

With his companions.

755

:

And so I reflect on that class and this

class we're taking now Islamic psychology,

756

:

it got me to see the importance,

of processes, And policies.

757

:

And not doing things just ad hoc

or making it up as we go, you know?

758

:

just like we said before, you, the

do all person, so people know, if

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:

there's policies and processes in

place, people know who to go to.

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You don't go to the

Imam to change the lock.

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:

we have a maintenance man,

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:

you know?

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:

We have a maintenance

man that can do that.

764

:

Let the Imam, be the Imam, you know.

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:

I think processes

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and, leadership styles.

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Those two classes, Islam

Psychology and Islamic leadership

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:

stuck out to me the most.

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:

Imam Tariq: is there anything that

our listeners should be looking

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:

out for from you or maybe even

in the spaces that you serve?

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:

Imam Rushdan: Well, I'll be finishing my,

CPE unit May 23rd, and then insha'Allah,

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:

we'll be beginning to build our community

center in masjid Bilal Islamic Center.

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:

And that center is going to be a big

service to the community, community

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:

hall, classrooms, technology center.

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:

commercial kitchen and cafeteria,

media center, communications

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:

room, office space, banquet hall.

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:

So it's gonna be a place where Muslim and

non Muslims can go and be in a peaceful

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:

environment, enjoy themselves, you

know, so we are looking forward to that.

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:

So look forward to that in the

coming year or so, and we'll

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:

invite you to the grand opening.

781

:

And we're gonna invite you, uh,

get Imam Tariq your host, our host,

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:

to do the Juma Khutbah one day.

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:

Imam Tariq: Oh, I would be honored.

784

:

Hey, Imam Rushdan.

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:

We thank you for taking the time

to come on and share a bit of

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:

your experience and your insight.

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:

and the inspiration that's come from them,

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Imam Rushdan: Alhamdulillah.

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Imam Tariq: Thank you.

790

:

All right.

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:

We thank our guest, Imam Rushan

Mujahideen for taking the time

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:

out to have this conversation.

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:

As we mentioned, he is the Los Angeles

Police Department's first commissioned

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:

Muslim chaplain, and it's been a pleasure

having the conversation with them.

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:

And if you have found value in

this conversation and the other

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:

conversations that we've had prior to

this, we ask that you do three things.

797

:

First thing is make sure

that you are subscribed.

798

:

So wherever you get your

podcast at, wherever you are

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:

streaming, subscribe and share.

800

:

Second thing, go to bayan online.org.

801

:

You're hearing from a lot of different

leaders who are serving in many different

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:

capacities, but what you may not know

if this is your first time listening.

803

:

That over 70% of Bayan Islamic

graduate school students

804

:

are scholarship recipients.

805

:

If you go to bayan online.org,

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:

you can contribute to this effort

to make our communities stronger

807

:

by supporting those who are

already working in the community.

808

:

So bayan online.org,

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:

find that tab that says the Muhammad

Ali Scholarship and make a donation.

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:

We encourage you to, we invite you to.

811

:

And last thing, join our

community of learners.

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:

We always like to highlight the

Bayan experience and hopefully

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:

you see the value in it.

814

:

Now, here's the great thing.

815

:

For just $10 a month, you get access

to over 30 classes taught by some of

816

:

the most sought after and respected

scholars and practitioners in the nation.

817

:

You get to study at your own pace, right?

818

:

You get to have this graduate

level experience, and it's in.

819

:

Your pocket, your purse on your table,

wherever you keep your cell phone.

820

:

So you can access it through

your phone, through the app, or

821

:

you can use your laptop, your

desktop, whatever you're using.

822

:

and like I said, $10 a month.

823

:

So it is a great benefit.

824

:

Join our community of learners.

825

:

Support the work that we're

doing here, and hopefully we

826

:

will see you again next week.

827

:

You can keep up with me on

social media @ImamTariqElAmin,

828

:

that's on Facebook and Instagram.

829

:

And now I'm going to leave you as I

greeted you, As Salaamu Alaikum, may the

830

:

peace that only God can give be upon you.

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About the Podcast

The American Muslim Podcast
The voices, stories, and perspectives shaping the American Muslim Experience
The American Muslim Podcast is your gateway to exploring the diverse and dynamic stories shaping the American Muslim experience. Hosted by Imam Tariq I. El-Amin, and brought to you by Bayan On Demand, this podcast shines a spotlight on the voices of leaders who are making a profound impact in their communities—many of whom are students, alumni, and visiting faculty of Bayan Islamic Graduate School.

From imams and chaplains to Islamic school leaders, teachers, scholars, and non-profit pioneers, we celebrate those who dedicate themselves to serving others. These inspiring individuals include masjid leaders, community activists, and youth mentors who exemplify the values of faith, compassion, and resilience in their work.

Through insightful conversations and authentic narratives, we explore how these leaders navigate faith, identity, and service, offering a unique perspective on the evolving role of American Muslims in shaping society. Join us to uncover the stories of those who lead with purpose and embody the transformative mission of Bayan.

About your host

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Tariq El-Amin

Imam Tariq I. El-Amin serves as the Resident Imam of Masjid Al-Taqwa in Chicago, IL. He is the founder of the Chicago Black Muslim History Tour and the former host of Sound Vision's Radio Islam, a nightly talk radio program that aired in the Chicago market. Tariq is a recipient of the Muhammad Ali Scholarship and earned a Master of Divinity in Islamic Chaplaincy from Bayan Islamic Graduate School in 2022. He is currently pursuing a Doctorate of Ministry in Islamic Community Leadership at Bayan, with expected completion in 2026. Tariq is also a producer of the award-winning UIC Black Excellence podcast, hosted by Dr. Aisha El-Amin, and lends his voice to narrating audiobooks.